Senate Standing Committee on Rules

The Senate Committee on Rules will come to order. Good afternoon, everyone. Our Senate continues to welcome the public in person and via our Teleconference Service. We're holding our Committee hearing in the O Street Building in room 2200 for individuals wishing to provide public comment via the Teleconference service.

The participant toll free number and access code are posted on our Committee website and it will be displayed on the screen a couple of times today, but it's there now. The participant number is 877-226-8163. The access code is 243-4582. And on behalf of our court reporter, let me ask all speakers, colleagues, witnesses alike, to speak slowly and clearly, particularly when we get to Teleconference Line, and I'll repeat myself, likely at that time, so that we can be sure and get your testimony as you are giving it. Before we begin today's agenda, we need to establish a quorum. So, colleagues, you'll have to turn on your microphone for the roll call. And every time that we vote Madam Secretary, we please call the roll.

Laird here. Laird here. Ochoa-Bogh? Here. Ocho-bogh here. Smallwood-Cuevas? Smallwood. Atkins? Here. Grove Atkins? Here. Atkins? Here.

Thank you. And I know our Vice Chair will be here shortly, but we're going to go ahead and I'm going to try to dispense with some quick items on item number two. The Governor's appointee is not required to appear. As I understand it, we don't need to separate out any items, so we can take item 2D through I.

I would move items 2D through 2I.

Thank you so much, Senator Laird. And that would be appointees to the Office of Administrative Law two appointments Housing Finance Agency, Barbering and Cosmetology. Forgive me. And two of the Board of Pilot Commissioners for the Bays of San Francisco, San Pablo and Suzanne. So with that, Madam Secretary, we call the roll.

Laird aye. Laird aye Ochoa-Bogh. Aye. Ocho-bogh aye. Smallwood-Cuevas. Smallwood-Cuevas aye. Grove Atkins aye. Atkins aye.

And that will be on call. I would take a motion on item three. Bill referrals.

I would move the Bill referral.

Thank you, Senator Laird. Madam Secretary. Call the roll.

Laird aye. Laird I Ochoa-bogh, aye. Ochoa-bogh aye. Smallwood-Cuevas, aye. Smallwood-Cuevas aye Grove Atkins aye. Atkins aye. On call.

That will be on call. Next, we have Floor Acknowledgments and we have items four through nine. Do we need to pull anything out and separate that? okay. I would entertain a motion on items four through nine. Thank you, Senator Laird. Madam Secretary, will you call the role?

Laird aye. Laird aye Ochoa-bogh, aye. Ochoa-bogh aye. Smallwood-Cuevas. Smallwood-Cuevas aye Grove Atkins aye. Atkins aye.

And that will also be on call. Let me go ahead and now go back to item number one A, which is Governor's appointees required to appear. And let me invite Director Nancy Ward up. This is with the Governor's Office of Emergency Services. Welcome, Director. And as you're getting situated. We would invite you to make any opening comments that you would like, acknowledge or thank anyone that you would like, and then opening comments, and then we'll go right to Members of the committee for questions and comments. Welcome. Is it on? Let's see. Test it. We can hear you wonderful.

Good afternoon, Chair and Members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. I'm honored that Governor Newsom appointed me to this position, which also serves as California's Homeland Security Advisor. The Governor's Office of Emergency Services, also called CalOES, is a world class leader in emergency management and homeland security.

Our mission is to protect lives and property, build capabilities, and support our communities for resilient California. I've spent decades serving in emergency management leadership roles at the State and Federal level. Throughout my career, I've been one of the few female leaders in this field.

Today, I'm the first woman to be appointed to this position in California, and I owe a debt of gratitude to the many mentors I've had in my career that saw a leader in me even before I had notion that it would be in my future. My hope is that as we continue to diversify our profession, the appointment of a woman is no longer notable.

The work of mathis organization is a tremendous responsibility for the men and women who serve it's. My goal to promote and sustain a prepared California enhancing the Emergency Management and Homeland Security statewide networks that thoughtfully address the needs of all communities in an equitable manner.

It starts with a CalOES's workforce that reflects the diversity of California communities across the state, and we have much more work to do to accomplish that. We'll focus on continuing the diversity of CalOES staff, strengthening our communication and collaboration with our local partners, synchronizing their training goals to provide more deliberate opportunities geared to enhance their local capabilities and capacity, and ensure our continued coordination of state resources in their time of need.

Like you, I've witnessed too many times the devastation to a community hit by a catastrophic disaster. The recovery process for our communities is long and challenging, particularly for the disadvantaged communities and families of our state. Our communities have experienced an unprecedented number of emergencies and disasters.

These events are often more complex, involve multiple counties and regions of the state simultaneously. Since my appointment in January, CalOES has led the coordination of federal, state and local resources for planning, response and recovery from atmospheric rivers, earthquakes, snowstorms water runoff from snowmelt with impacts across the entire state. This Administration and the Legislature have demonstrated a tremendous level of commitment to strengthen California's ability to swiftly respond to and recover from emergencies and disasters by making critical investments of new permanent resources and CalOES initiatives.

Some of these include increasing the state's capabilities through new permanent response teams, a permanent California cybersecurity program, expanded recovery programs, and new modern technology and data analytic tools. Some have asked me why I would want to come out of a comfortable retirement to serve in this role. And it's simple. I believe strongly in the CalOES's mission. And the recent long lasting investments that the Legislature and Administration have made has created a unique opportunity in California. Thank you for the opportunity to be with you today and happy to answer any questions.

Thank you very much, Director. I understand Senator Smallwood-Cuevas you might have to leave, so can we let you go first? Okay.

Thank you so much, Madam President and Pro-Tem, I am so honored to be here with you. I had to meet you during a briefing when we had the heavy atmospheric rivers, and it was so wonderful to hear a strong and beyond competent, beyond relevant, beyond assuring voice and how we were going to weather some of the challenges that so many communities were facing.

All over the State I just wanted to ask one question, and my question has to do with how we're ensuring in our emergency services to bring in communities in a culturally relevant way, particularly in the middle of disaster. There are so many cultural practices, experiences that have communities respond in different ways to catastrophe, whether it's farm workers during floods, whether it's African American communities during social uprising.

There's all different kinds of ways in which emergencies have to be addressed and dealt with. And so I wanted to get a sense of how are you ensuring that we are serving and ensuring resources are put into place to address the cultural relevance for those communities who may face some sort of emergency or disaster min the state.

Well, thank you for the question. And you hit the nail on the head that communities differ greatly in their capacity and capability to respond. And in the area that you're talking about, succinctly in some of these communities, the county, which is who we deal with initially, don't have the capability even to go out into their own communities and do what you're asking and to bring in.

So we need to meet them where they are right and bring in those community based organizations, those trusted partners that the communities themselves will listen to. As you probably know, a low of folks are not very trusting of the government. And in many instances, we've got to bring in those trusted partners to sit down with us to then line out what types of resources need to happen.

The state and federal disaster assistance programs don't hit everyone with everything that they need. Really, government can't do it all, quite honestly. And so bringing in those CBOs, bringing in those and meeting them where they need, if we have to go mobile to get to them and bring them to the community centers, to bring them to the resource center so they can provide us with what the needs are, that's really where our trust begins, really is. Having them tell us how we can bring the needs to them and we've got to do more of it, Senator. For sure.

Thank you so much and looking forward to your confirmation. Thank you.

Thank you, Senator. Senator Ochoa-Bogh.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Grateful to be here today and what an honor it is to have had the opportunity to both meet with you in person, but as well as to have worked with you during a time when my district was going through the unprecedented snowstorms in our mountain communities.

And I just want to publicly commend your responsiveness, your care and dutifulness min the work and the capacity we're working on. And I couldn't have asked maybe I'm sharing a little too much, but Ms.. Ward here was willing to communicate with me whether it was before business hours, early hours in the morning, 07:00 637 o'clock in the morning to very late at night.

This is how readily available she made herself in trying to respond to my questions and concerns regarding my district and what my constituents were going through. And I just want to publicly say thank you for being such a rock and why I'm so excited to have you for your confirmation in this capacity moving forward. Having said that, I just have two questions for you.

One has to do with our capacity or ability to respond to emergency, especially in circumstances that we have never faced before. And some of the lessons that we learn and how do we best grove forward in making sure or ensuring that we are better prepared for situations of the unknown both at the state lee at the county level and with your office and how do we better communicate?

Well, that's multifaceted, Senator, but appreciate the question. We really need to strengthen the Emergency Management Network and Homeland Security Network as well. Throughout the state, our local entities are really reeling from a decrease in their capacity and their capabilities.

And so in consequence management, which is an all hazards response, whether it's floods, fires, acts of civil disturbance, whatever the unknown is the consequence management, the tools that we have is the knowledge and the capabilities that we can swiftly pivot to whatever the need arises.

But we can't do that without a strong network of folks all understanding the response and the recovery of whatever disaster happens. The tools that we have, the resources, how they're used, how they're obtained, and how we distribute them. And we're going to get there and reinforce that by acknowledging, exercising, planning, training and dialoguing with our local communities to enhance their capabilities.

All disasters, no matter manmade or natural, start at the local level. And they need to have a baseline capability to sustain themselves until the state and the federal government resources can get to them. And that's what we practice to. That's what we plan to. Will it still be a tough situation? In many cases, especially for those unknown, especially for those man made disasters that we probably haven't seen yet.

Absolutely. But the resources that we have, the pivots that we need to make are what we need to do and be capable of fong each and every day. And the more people that we can build and strengthen their capabilities of so that they can sustain themselves until the federal and state government can bring their resources in, the better off we are.

I hope I answered your question okay.

Wonderful.

Yes.

And then, we briefly discuss what OES is doing in wildfire preparedness. As you can imagine, the same communities that were hit by these snowstorms will be more likely to be impacted by these potential or they would be at higher risk for wildfires. Can you briefly update us for the record on what we're doing to plan for and respond to Wildfires this year?

Sure. Well, we've got some great new technology that we're extremely excited about, thanks to the Administration and the Legislature. The Wildfire Intelligence Integration Center is referred to as the Whifftick, if you will, is a new predictive modeling data system that projects and allows us to lee 14 days out with the weather, the fire indices, the wind where the risk is most high for high fire, red flag warnings and to take that information and to provide it to our first responders who need that.

It's a website that went live last year. There's more analytical types of daily reports that are being built. Hopefully all will be there on July 1. But what it provides on a daily basis is what the threat outlook looks like throughout the State of California. Our local operational areas, which are the County Emergency Managers, will be able to look at that each and every day, throughout the day as it changes, and then it'll detect what fire starts.

We have from that we then have a data management system that overlays, if there is a fire start, overlays the topography, the critical infrastructure, the homes, communities that surround that area that may be burning as the fire grows in acreage. And that actually goes down to the Incident Commander.

From that we also have what's called our fire integration system, that it's a LiDAR and an aerial picture that goes out and flies on a 24/7 capability. It's part of our mutual aid system, goes out and flies the perimeter of the fire to then put back to the they've got 30 minutes to get it back into the incident commander, who then can see where the fire is growing, where the head of the fire is growing, what the topography is.

So those three ayes of technology are very, very exciting. We're hopeful that with the amount of rain that we've gotten that the fire season will be a bit delayed. We don't think that it one has gotten us out of the drought, nor will it get us out of the late fire season as well. But we've already started our internal meetings about fire season.

Our regional staff will be working with their mutual aid regions. That brings those counties that emergency managers together for their meetings. They'll be talking about fire season. Looking at the data analytics that we have now in place. So we feel pretty good that we're situated to have probably the best analytical data that we've had to start a fire season.

That's exciting and very grateful to hear that. And thank you for all the work that you folks have done in this space, especially as we move forward after an unprecedented number of atmospheric rivers and snowstorms hit California.

Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you. Thank you, Senator.

Thank you, Senator. Madam Vice Chair.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Director Ward. I just have a few comments. I want you to know that to be honest, I was truly, truly worried when Mark resigned. I thought who?

So was I.

Who's going to show up on the fire with things that chop up old cars that have been burnt to the ground? Who's going to be available at our beck and call whether it's midnight at night or 05:00 in the morning? And then I met you and I asked you a series of questions. And it didn't matter if it was mosquito vector control, which is important because of the areas of water for flooding. It didn't matter if we talked about lack of personnel issues.

You were willing to come to a job fair in Fresno to our bitwise people that could have transferable skills. It didn't matter if I talked about flooding min the Central Valley because we have the large flooding areas and where the levees are barely holding. You didn't just have an answer, you had a perfect answer for everything.

And then to run into Mark and him give you he said it really wasn't him that did all that stuff over the last few years. It was you. And then to have the good Major by your side, I couldn't even imagine somebody more qualified. So I don't have any questions. I just want to let you know that I'm looking forward to your confirmation and thank you for meeting with me.

Thank you, Senator. And thanks for you for your help during the storms.

Thank you, madam Vice Chair. Senator Laird.

Thank you. It's hard to follow the wonderful precedent that was just set. Let me say just I've worked with you before and worked with you with the Atmospheric Rivers, and you were incredible. You started on January 1 and they hit as you started. And so I appreciate that and I appreciate our meeting. So I'm going to be very comfortable supporting you.

But I thought there were a couple of things we talked about in the meeting that were worth everybody hearing and putting on the record. And the first one is what you learned from these atmospheric rivers. And we talked about the lack of translators to different languages of community based organizations. And of getting information in real time because of that one situation where it didn't move up the chain immediately and it was an emergency. So what did you learn out of having to go through those on your first days on the job?

I think I said to you in our meeting, Senator, that this may sound strange, but I learned what I knew. And what I knew is that we have to do response differently. We have been having our regional staff in their regional office working min a regional EOC, if you will. And what I learned was I want them out in the field and they need to be out in the field, especially as we see operational areas or our counties needing so much help from the state and federal government in times of need.

They need to be on the ground with those counties, in some cases in multiple force to be allen to understand what's happening on the ground in a much more real time way. And you and I talked about the highway one flooding and how long it took for us to understand. And quite I went back to my notes, Senator, and actually we found out from you on a legislative call that you brought it up to our attention.

And then we went from there, getting DWR and Caltrans on the ground there to try and decide what to do in real time. And if we don't have our people there min a large a footprint as we can, we can't help real time decisions for the county and to let you know that that decision has still not been made for that area. We are trying to encourage a resolution to that because the Corps of Engineers wants to start repairing the levee and they can't do that until the sewer line is relocated.

So we still have an issue there, and it's in June. So I would say to you, what I learned was what I knew, and that is our people need to be on the ground in those EOCs and in the communities, understanding really what the need is and what resources, technical assistance, financial or otherwise, what we need to bring to the fight.

I should note that I responded that when I was out at the levee, while the atmospheric rivers was still going on in Oceano where it was being notched to save the community and drain into agriculture, absolutely your people were there. And when we were at the Emergency Operations Center in Monterey because of Pajaro, your people were there. So they got the message in through you.

The other question I wanted to ask you is that there's a process. We talked about it in our meeting of after disasters or in concert, there's hazard mitigation and there's funds that can come to California or places for hazard mitigation, talk about how they're computed and how they're distributed. For everybody that was in a disaster zone that is wondering that sure.

So FEMA hazard mitigation dollars are formulated through the amount of dollars that aye, it's a formula. Out of the amount of funding FEMA provides for infrastructure repair and restoration, individual assistance, there's a formula that they calculate hazard mitigation dollars, and those dollars are there put in a pot to be cost shared with local governments at a 75-25 split.

To be able to have local governments who have just gone through a disaster look at their communities and see if there are projects that can buy down their risk so that it doesn't happen again. It's a tough process to get through to be quite frank with you. Especially because some of the bigger projects that buy down the most risk if you will have to go through FEMA's environmental process.

And I will tell you I have about four or five projects that have been in that process for more than three years. But there is an exciting program that California initiated called Prepare California for disadvantaged communities to be able to not only do Prepare California has two provisions.

One's called Jumpstart and it's a provision that allows disadvantaged communities to apply for a million dollar grant to be able to hire a hazard mitigation officer or a resilience officer and to help formulate projects for this Fund. In addition to that, there is another part of Prepare California that's Allen match that actually pays for the local match of a project submitted by that community and FEMA approves it.

So for these communities that have been disadvantaged for all these years who one couldn't get through the grant process itself, could not get them maybe through the planning process of their local community to even formulate a project, now have resources that the state can provide so they have much better access to these funds.

It's very exciting. I have not seen it in my entire career. And we're so excited to be able to offer that to communities who will, for the first time, have a resilience officer, potentially for multi years, to be able to look at their risk, look at their community risk, and develop projects that can be put forward to FEMA for this hazard mitigation Fund.

I appreciate that and just a closing comment. I mean, I think that was a great explanation. However, we can work together that if FEMA is not being as responsive as we would like. I had the misfortune in the 80's just being on the city council for the 100 year storm and then seven years later have the earthquake destroy our downtown.

We were still not repaid from FEMA from the first storm when we went into the second 1. Second thing seven years later and given what you said we're looking at an El Nino. We're looking at another flood before we could get these levees done. If we need to on our side use pressure to goose people to get it done.

It's like I'm sure all of us will make ourselves available because that is really if we can use the political pressure to try to do that, I mean, we can't go through another disaster in that community the way this one was because people are dragging their feet.

That's exactly right. And I will be happy to use your pressure.

Great. Thank you very much. Just in case anybody didn't lee it before, this is why we're going to be happy to confirm this person. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you. Senator Laird, I agree with all the comments of my colleagues. It has been really good for us to see you step into this role. I agree with the Vice-Chair. We couldn't be happier, especially given all of the issues that seem to come your way. The pandemic obviously set you back a bit in terms of a number of legislative related reports, fire assessment, all that.

Hopefully we'll be able to get those kinds of things soon. But I have a feeling the job is being done as quickly and fast as it can be based on everything thrown your way. I wanted to ask a question about staffing and how do you feel about staffing and the ability to staff up? Do you have the staff you need?

It's challenging, Senator. I have over 100 vacancies. And it's not only challenging from trying to get experienced Emergency Managers, that's actually a shortfall across the country. Even my FEMA friends are having the same issues. But what we're having, clearly the pipeline process that we recruit to in the state just isn't working.

And so I've challenged my folks to look at different ways of obtaining candidates and that's hopefully to, as Senator Grove mentioned, going to local job fairs, especially in our underserved communities, going to colleges and community colleges and universities who have now started to have emergency management and homeland security in their curriculums.

We're doing videos of employees who just love their jobs and sending that out as far and wide as we can. It's just really tough right now. I think if I had everybody in their seats and trained and ready to go, I think I would be just ecstatic and living in a dream. But it's been really tough and it's our focus for the next several months so that we don't get to the heart of fire season, we don't go into a potential El Nino and not have a lot more folks in positions than we do now.

Well, thank you. I probably would love to we'll all want to be kept apprised of that. . Obviously, our budget process and the subcommittees that ask. Obviously maybe policy committees too, but I did want to ask one more question, and this is pretty much it.

Because I appreciate all the comments of my colleagues and certainly what we've gotten from you in writing progress on OES and Cal, the Victims Compensation Board, and developing a proposal for consolidating victim service programs and timeline for submitting or getting us some information so we know. But really it's you doing the work. Do you want to comment on that?

Well, I wasn't here when they put the council together, but I can tell you from my staff are thrilled that that council came together. I understand it's working very well. I will tell you that the only complaint my grant folks have is the overwhelming application process that they have. And that's wonderful.

That is a great problem to have, quite frankly. But the work that the council is doing to integrate what's going on has been tremendous. There is even one of another agency's grant that we're actually administering because we do it so well, quite honestly. So from my folks' perspective and what they have communicated to me is that it's working really well and they kind of wish they had done it sooner.

And I'd imagine, given your need for staffing, the balancing act between administering a program like this versus your emergency responsibilities, which is first and foremost.

We try during application cycles, if you will, for the grants. We try, if we do have an activation where we have to pull from the rest of the agency like we do, we try and ensure that that application process goes forward because they're on very tight time frames. And so we try and pull from other areas so that we don't impact an application cycle, if you will, so that we can get the grants out and get the awards out.

When they're approved. So we try and do that balance. But you're absolutely right. It's a balancing act with so many vacancies that we have. It's a balancing act, but we try and be very deliberate about the grants folks.

Well, thank you. It's clear you are in the weeds or at the high level, depending upon the question. It's good to know you have really a handle on all of this, and we are so appreciative. I'm going to go ahead and turn to Members of the public who are here now. Let me ask for those who wish to speak in support if you want to make your way forward, your name, organization, if any, and your comment of support. Welcome.

Thank you, Madam Chair and Senators Doug Subers on behalf of the California Professional Firefighters here in strong support of Director Ward's appointment. CPF represents more than 34,000 professional firefighters and emergency medical services personnel statewide. I think the Director Ward's expertise and experience speaks for itself min this hearing, we would just say that CalOEs has demonstrated a significant commitment to firefighter health and safety and managing systems to help firefighters, our Members be effective in the field and respond to fires and other disaster emergency response incidents. We look forward to continuing to work with the Director Ward and would certainly encourage your confirmation of her appointment today. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Others in support. Okay, let's go ahead and see. If there's anyone here in room 2200 who wishes to speak in opposition. Okay. Seeing no one, we will now go to our teleconference line and hopefully we'll put that number back up on the screen.

877-226-8163 Access code 2434582. And let me welcome our moderator. Welcome.

Thank you. Madam Chair, if you would like to provide public comments today, in support or opposition, please press one, then zero at this time. And Madam Chair, there are no comments.

Okay. Thank you. With that, we will come back into room 2200 to my colleagues and see who wants to jockey to motion. Madam Vice Chair, I will ask you to make the motion or you made the motion. Madam Secretary, want to call the roll?

Laird Aye. Laird Aye. Ochoa bogh Aye. Ochoa bogh Aye. Smallwood-Cuevas Grove. Aye. Grove Aye. Atkins Aye. Atkins Aye. On call.

It will be on call. Congratulations. We will forward this to the full Senate for confirmation.

Great.

Thank you for your time much.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. We appreciate your service. We're going to take just a few minute break, but before we do, I'll go ahead and open the roll on a couple of items that we dispensed with early, earlier on on items 2D through I. Open the roll.

Grove, Grove aye, five to zero.

Five to zero. Thank you. That is out. Item three, Bill referrals. Open the roll.

Grove, Grove aye, five to zero.

Five to zero. Thank you. And we did the floor acknowledgments items four through nine. There were no separations out. Open the roll.

Grove, Grove aye, five to zero.

Five to zero. Thank you. And with that, we're just going to take a few minute break and get set up. So we'll be back within five minutes. Things are running smoothly.

And let me welcome up item B, governor's appointees, and that would be for Geoffrey Long. And for James O'Rourke. Members of the Commission on Police I need to speak slowly. Members on the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training, let me say welcome. And you've both been through this before, so as I welcome you, you can be prepared to acknowledge whoever you want, make some opening comments. We'll let you go first, Mr. Long, and then you, Mr. O'Rourke. And then we'll go right to Members up here for comments and questions. So, welcome. It's good to see you again.

Thank you. Thank you. Madam President and Senators. It's a privilege to be here today. My name is Geoff Long. This is my 8th year on the Commission and my fourth month as Chair. I was appointed by Governor Brown in early 2016, just weeks after I retired from the Legislature, where I served for 33 years. I began my legislative career with the late, great John Vasconcellos and the Assembly Ways and Means Committee.

When the Committee split, I was the Chief Consultant to the Budget Committee for a while, and then I served as Chief Consultant to the Appropriations Committee for 20 odd years. I retired from the Senate as Policy Director for the Pro-Tem. For most of my years in the Legislature, I also handled criminal justice policy, analyzing thousands of public safety bills and hundreds of budgets. When I joined the Commission in 2016. I think the Commission was sometimes perceived as a bit of a law enforcement rubber stamp for staff proposals.

I want to say, though, that due to some new appointments and the Commission's choice of a superb new Executive Director, former FBI Special Agent Manny Alvarez, I think that perception has changed quite a bit. Post these major challenges, effective SB 2 implementation, ongoing enhancement and infusion of use of force and procedural justice training, and expanding our efforts to work with outside experts and academia to review and improve training programs.

I'll close and just say I'm confident the Commission will continue to provide effective leadership and direction. And I know that all commissioners are supportive of the excellent work that the Post staff are doing under what is now significant pressure. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. O'Rouke.

My name is James O'Rourke.

See if the mic is on. Is it on.

It is.

Perfect.

Thank you.

Thank you.

My name is James O'Rourke. I've been with the California Highway Patrol for about 25 and a half years. I first came to Post in I believe 2017, when I was appointed by Governor Brown. At the time, I really was into training. Based on my background, I've been assigned down actually to the capital area since 2000. So many of the faces I do recognize. Geoff's right.

We have a big task in front of us as implementation of SB Two, and how we make sure POST is being able to capable of implementing everything while we still balance the fine line of getting the training that's needed for law enforcement. That's basically my intro. I appreciate you taking the time to hear from us today. Thank you.

Well, thank you both. And thank you for your incredible service, longtime service, especially given how it has changed over time and the additional responsibilities, obviously, keeping in mind, the original mission, which was to ensure training standards. So it's really good to have you both with us to have a conversation. I am going to start at this end of the dias this time Senator Laird, why don't you kick us off?

Thank you very much. I appreciate the service of both of you. And after having to worry about suspense coming from the other direction, I'm glad the suspense is over with you right now.

Never been on this side. Really? Like it.

Well, let me ask first, and I know we've been through confirmations already. I began our meeting by saying what has changed since we last confirmed you, but I think SB 2 has changed. And there was a General issue of a backlog in complaints. So talk about what really is the backlog at Commission and how you intend to address it. And actually, I'll start with Mr. Long, and if Sergeant O'Rourke wishes to comment, that's great.

You're speaking specifically of SB 2 backlog.

Yes.

But I think that there's another category, too, and you might speak to that as well. Of complaints, or are all the complaints related to SB Two?

Pretty much, yeah.

Okay, then let's just do SB 2.

Yeah. Well, SB 2 came with a look back period of three years, which time law enforcement agencies were required to report to POST any items of misconduct. So far, we've got almost more than 11,000 reports. Those reports all have to be investigated. They all have to be cleared. Now, the legislation said that all complaints about the nine areas of misconduct that were stipulated by the commission and in the Bill had to be reported to the commission within ten days.

So you can imagine that's a pretty large base of reports. Some will be founded, some are unfounded. Local law enforcement was not told to investigate them and try to determine the veracity of the reports. Just get them to POST. The POST is sitting on about 11,000 now. Some couple of thousand of them have already been cleared. But you've still got this huge backlog.

Staffing is an issue. That's what I alluded to when I said the pressure on POST staff. We're doing a marvelous job. But the budget and the staffing for POST, which is a relatively small Department, doubled overnight. It went from about, I don't know, 50 odd million dollars to double the staff doubled to 236. And we've got about 80 openings still similar to what Director Ward said.

It's been very difficult to find and to close those. And it's had to happen in a very short time Post has had to create a human resources Department, a legal Department and so forth, just to deal with the current cases. Now the other thing we don't know about this backlog, we don't know exactly how many of the 11,000 are look back cases and how many of them occurred since January 1.

So we will also probably get a huge dump of cases because the statute requires that those reports come in before July 1. So you look at the counties or the law enforcement agencies have reported, looks like there's probably about maybe 35% haven't reported at all, haven't reported anything. On one level, that looks alarming. But then you look at the number of law enforcement agencies that have less than a dozen officers and think, well, maybe there's nothing to report.

So we won't jump to the conclusions until we can really look and see what's out there. But it's a massive backlog. What POST is kind of doing is triaging a little bit. Now they just have to triage a little bit to try to deal with them as they go. The average clearing time so far has only been about two days, but that's because they're clearing kind of the underbrush, the ones that really weren't founded or anything, as you can imagine.

I think LA county, I think they get like 20,000 complaints alone every year from prisoners in their jails of treatment at the hands of the jailers. So you can see there's a lot of complaints that come down. We've got to dispatch with them. Some will take a great deal of time.

Well, a quick follow up. And that is that I think some of the questioning or questions and answers said that there were a certain number of look back are, like 5000, and that there were some complaints that only a fraction of them had been 2000 or something, had been investigator follow up. And it was sorta of on, as you use the word triage. Triage basis, does that mean that the others are still open? Okay.

Yes, absolutely. They're working on them around the clock as much as fast as possible.

What's the basis for taking 2000 over the 3000 that weren't looked at?

No, they're just moving it.

They're not making categories?

No, there's no categories.

Try not to talk over each other. Finish a question only because as you will recall, Mr. Long, we have a court reporter here who has to wade through that. So just a reminder.

And let me ask sergeant O'Rourke, do you wish to comment on anything that we've been talking about?

Yeah, on the triage. They're putting them into priority. Priority one, priority two, priority three, priority four on how they come in. If the person is still working, retired, depending on what category it falls in as far as if it's physical abuse with great bodily injury, dishonesty, sexual abuse would be your priority ones. They're trying to get through those first. So they're all fong to be looked at. It's just the matter of having the staffing and being able to accomplish the mission.

And then my other question was addressed in part, but talk about the staff resources and whether they're adequate or whether one of the reasons you're triaging is you don't haney enough staff to deal with this. Maybe I'll start with Sergeant O'Rourke this time and then let Mr. Long come.

At the time. Right now, I think the mission is getting accomplished. I think it can be more difficult as time goes along. So it is definitely a big concern. It's going to be the staffing levels of POST and how we can manage SB 2, as well as still providing the training and all the other stuff. Allen, the other items that POST provides, so it is a concern.

I will add to that only that the staffing level that's been provided and the funding level from finance and from the Legislature is sufficient. It appears to be sufficient. We've got no issues or complaints here. We just threatened POST needs to fill the bodies. And there's a problem with that. And like I said, there's about 80 openings, but about 50 of those are within the SB 2 division.

And a number of those positions have to be, according to the personnel board, have to be law enforcement consultants. So they have to be people who haney worked in law enforcement. And as Jim can tell you, or any peace officer can tell you, trying to hire a peace officer where they where they aren't going to get peace officer status when they're retired, they have to give up their peace office status.

And most of them are not a lot of them are in POST, so they can't collect PERs, not POST are in PERs. So it's been a very difficult it's very difficult trying to land law enforcement consultants. So POST is looking at if there's any way around that. But right now it's been very difficult to find peace officers in retirement, for example. They retire early and who are able to work and not and still collect their pensions and not give up their peace officer status.

Senator, can I interject?

Sure. I was just going to say that completes mine, so you can ask.

Well, just to follow along, I feel fortunate that we have you here, Mr. Long, because you have a long history of understanding how legislation works, how budget issues work. But if you see any potential creative solutions on how we can help you where the Legislature can be helpful, I get it. We listen to Director Ward hiring people and then you have the peace officer.

Do you see through any of this, either legislatively or budget wise, that we can be helpful to POST in this regard? Any suggestions for us that we would then have to implement through policy or budget to be helpful?

Sure, Jim, maybe you want to address this. But, I mean, peace officer status.

Yeah. You can look at different levels of peace officers in how Edd and have limited peace officer powers while they're in the duty of their job. That may be an option for POST to do.

And POST has started bringing on they got about a dozen so far. Retired. Retired annuitants. But again, when you've got this massive backlog and we really don't know exactly, of course we're just guesstimating what the numbers will be going forward. It's kind of hard to do with 960 hours a year when you really do need the full time people. So, yeah, we definitely could use help, and we definitely have a few ideas, but they're kind of along the lines of peace officer staff.

I would say that'd be a big one. Unless we can raise the number of hours for the retired annuities, that might be an option as well.

Well, I would ask you to think creatively. Clearly, there are practical issues, policy issues, maybe budget issues and political issues on what's doable when you get into those definitions and what the acceptable levels. But I would love to have staff work with you on any creative ideas you have because we put the work on you, we want to be able to make sure it's effective and you're able to do the job clearly. So we may want to work with you further to figure out some of those creative solutions to be as helpful as we can. As soon as we can.

Yes, ma'am.

Fantastic.

Wow.

Thanks. That was a perfect follow up. And that completes my questions, and I appreciate that addition.

Senator. You might have gone there. I'm sorry to interject. But Madam Vice Chair

Absolutely, thank you, Madam Chair. That was going to be my follow up question, is that there's something we could do legislatively that would help you meet the goals that you have and address the backlog. I get it. If you've spent 25 years in law enforcement or 20 years and you can't go get this job and still draw your pension and it doesn't pay enough to sustain your lifestyle, and I don't think anybody lives above their lifestyle above any certain standard when you come to law enforcement.

I have family in law enforcement. Right. So I know what they live like. I get it. So I appreciate the Senate Pro-Tem. Obviously, she has a lot more power than I do, so she's engaged in this conversation. I'm excited. So I'd love to work with her on this. Just on a side note, I have a job fair coming up in Fresno for all the people that were laid off by bitwise. Over 700 people lost their job and there wasn't a warn notice. So if you want to put a tent up, maybe we could recruit some people for you.

We're definitely recruiting.

Yeah.

Just on a side note, I did want to address, like, my colleague briefly. I have information here that says about 3000 to 3500 police officers each year could be suspended for misconduct because of the new requirements under the definition of misconduct. Again. And then I know there's a low of law enforcement vacancies. Take the CHP.

The only unit that is completely fully staffed is this unit here at the Capitol. I have one CHP officer that takes care of, I don't know, 600 miles of 395. Right. And I don't want anybody on the job that is not doing what they're supposed to be doing. How do we meet the standards of SB 2 and the challenges that that faces and still make sure that we have qualified, trained individuals holding those positions? And Mr. O'Rourke, I'll start with you.

The 3500 number you're referring to I believe came out the other day. I believe that number is part of the BCP. That was the number of cases that could go to the ALJ. Okay. We think it's probably going to be about 10% of that that will be suspended or have their license revocated. That's just based on what I've read and stuff. So that's where that number comes from. So I don't think it's going to be quite 3500. I think it's going to be roughly right around 350.

Okay, that's good news. Like I said, I don't want anybody on the job that's not trained in doing what they're supposed to do. You guys are sworn to protect and serve our communities and that's what we would all expect out of law enforcement. And I think 99.9% of the time we really do get that. So I appreciate that. I was really nervous about that 3500 number. You too?

Well, when we saw that it was kind of if you're not used to reading BCPs, they can be a little confusing and you had to kind of nurse that out that it was really probably about 10% of that 3500 that we're anticipating.

That's good. I have a question regarding crime again and how we address the crime issues that we face here in California today and how law enforcement adjust to those. And I often follow the news like say there's an officer involved shooting or something. Me, it's easy for people to do Monday morning quarterback, but I think at that very moment, based on the information that officer had, I mean, maybe the 911 operator called and said, act a shooter, DA DA DA, dress like this and then for whatever reason somebody reaches in their belt or whatever the circumstances.

Aye, it's easy to do Monday morning quarterbacking after the fact. But at that very moment, what was that officer thinking and what was in that officer's mind regarding the information that he had to deal with at that very moment? Because like I said, Monday morning cornerback is easy. How do we train officers or spend time on how do we solve that problem?

I think with latest innovative and the technology for training and stuff, whether it's virtual reality simulators, which you're all more welcome to come try out and put it on and go through different scenarios, there's a dispatch rework on their training and a lot of that, yes, you're right. As you respond to calls, you're getting information, so it kind of changes your mindset.

But I think once you respond, you're there, you're looking what's around and stuff. You're right, it is the Monday morning quarterback, and we weren't there in that situation, so that's hard. But the more training you can provide and the best practices and stuff and working on whether it's deescalation or however, that's part of those simulators as part of it is deescalation and all that as well. So I think the more training you can provide but the caveat to that is right now, law enforcement numbers are down. So then, you take one and go to the other. That is an issue.

My last question on hiring and then I'll pass it on is in the real world. In the real world, I own a company that hires people, that puts them out to work, and we have a huge issue with that. I want to say millennial, under millennial, generation X, whatever it is. Do you guys find that same situation that it's hard to find the younger people that are more technology savvy than somebody who's in the next generation? Do you have a problem with the younger generation wanting to come on to law enforcement? And if so, how do we get them engaged in this professional field?

I was at the Sheriff's Academy, Santiago Flora Sheriff's Academy for a visit for the Davies, and I went kind of asked the same questions. Looking at I was surprised by how old actually some of the cadets were. Not enough, probably, but there were a whole bunch of mid career people. I was really surprised to see that. Obviously Jim's been through a lot more academies than I have, but I was really surprised and pleased to hear that.

And they're talking a lot, at least at the Sachs Sheriff's Academy, that they are attracting more second career kind of people and so forth. And it did look a little bit older. I think part of it is fong to be a cultural change to try to attract people to the profession. I think that POST is envisioning that and is trying to deal with that. But I think the academies are still overwhelmingly young at this point. Okay, yeah, it runs anywhere from 21 or 25 to 30 year olds that are graduating and stuff, I think.

How do you infuse the profession? I think we need to get into communities earlier and work youth camps, stuff like that, get them to know law enforcement. It's just a matter of rebuilding that image and getting people that want to serve and protect.

Yeah. No, I appreciate that. I know that we did a thing with our local law enforcement, the Highway Patrol, when we had a captain there that he actually figured out a way to give somebody an hour a week pay to do mentoring to at risk youth. And that worked out well because a lot of these kids, the only time they saw you was in something negative. Right? Absolutely.

Either arresting with their parents, whatever the case was, and that 1 hour a week that officers spent personal time with these at risk youth, I think there's about 60 officers that participated through the sheriff or the CHP. And it really impacted a lot of those lives. And there's still stories coming back through all these years where these kids, their lives were changed over it. So I agree with you that you need to get into communities.

Thank you very much. And I'm really looking forward to supporting both of you. Like the Senate Pro-Tem said, Mr. Long, with being all these years in the building and understanding how this building works, which is Hart, for some people to understand that you have that knowledge. And then Mr. O'Rourke, with your years of experience in law enforcement, thank you both for willing to take this position.

Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Vice Chair, Senator Ochoa Bogh.

Thank you. I don't have any questions per se because my colleagues have already addressed some of those issues. So I'm going to be just happy to give my time to the Pro-Tem to ask questions as she may seem fit. But I just want to make one comment. I noticed that you were a religious studies major.

I was indeed.

And so was I. So I just saw that in common. I thought, we don't see very many people who major in religious studies, and I just thought it was kind of nice.

Interesting. Thank you.

Did that get you a job in North Dakota? It did. Random fact.

Thank you.

In case you didn't know, he's the former Secretary of Natural Resources.

Keep going, madam.

I feel so bad for our court reporter who has to go back and forth with the ping pong of what we do. We appreciate her so much. Thank you. I only have one question, and it really has to do with Public Records Act request. Well, only because I think if those requests are not able to be obtained through the local jurisdictions, it seems that now they're coming through POST to try to get that.

Do you have comments on how to approach that? You have too much experience of a certain kind of experience here, experience you probably would never want to have to have, frankly. Although you do have to work with us, I know, in multiple ways, but can you comment on that?

Sure. I think that we've been aware of the PR issue for some time. The commission and of course, the POST staff. First and foremost, what we don't want to do is have anything get in the way of what we're trying to accomplish with SB 2, which is to identify, investigate, and get rid of bad cops.

The concern, obviously, with PRAs is with the numbers we're dealing with currently, like, I say, 11,000 reports. And it's going to grow. Being buried in PRAs, that's just a fact. The amount of time and the staff setting aside the budget issue is almost unimaginable because these cases, some of them have thousands and thousands of pages. And the redaction and the review will be it'll be very onerous.

Some of the stories on this have said, well, Georgia and Tennessee, they do it well. Tennessee has 25 cases and 150 a year. Georgia, both states POST staff has contacted both states and they get from the locals a one page piece of paper. That's it. That's it. Because the only cases that most other states here aye officers who have been charged, officers haney been convicted, officers that were in the paper, California system is this is not your father's decertification program.

This is having requiring all law enforcement agencies to report every type of misbehavior or misconduct, rather. And so you can have a voluminous number. I want to assure anyone who's listening that there is never a word spoken about in any way, shape, or form trying to reduce transparency. I can say as the chair of the commission, I would blow the whistle on that immediately. There's never an effort to do that.

The only goal was to say, what if we had the locals do what they haney share their investigative stuff when it comes to POST , what POSTinvestigative materials have, POST will share. Now, is there middle ground? Probably. There's always something we can discuss. I'm sure discussions are ongoing that I may not be aware of, but that was the only motivation POST had, was trying and in conversations with the Governor's office min the Department of Finance was trying to find a way how do we not grind this SB 2 effort to a halt and at the same time ensuring complete transparency?

Well, thank you. Anything you want to add, Sergeant?

No, I think Jeff covered it.

Okay, well, I appreciate that, in particular your comments about access to records and transparency. It is definitely something we're grappling with, as you know. Right low in terms of how to find a solution. But thank you. I don't have anything further. We're going to go ahead and go to Members of the public. So right here, in, room 2200. If you would like to speak in support of one or both, please come forward. Your name, your organization, if any, and your position of support.

Thank you. Madam Chair, Members of the Committee. Aaron Read. I was sent here by the Board of Directors of the California Association of Highway Patrolmen. Jim is a Board Member. He is a sergeant on our board. He's passed legislative chairman. So I can atest. He knows all about the legislative process.

He was my legislative chair for the last five years, so he knows that stuff very well. He was very helpful in working on SB 2, and we amended SB 2. We worked with the Legislature, worked with you, Madam Chair, and we worked with your staff. We worked with the Speaker, we worked with the Governor. We've done all that.

It is a very difficult Bill. They have a lot of work ahead of them. It's critical. I'm glad that you haney experienced commissioners here with Jeff and Jim because we need that experience now more than ever. More than ever. It'll plateau out eventually, but it's going to be a few years before it does. But I'm here to say that Jim is highly qualified.

I've known him for many years before he became the legislator. He's been on the board for many years. I knew his father, who was a CHP officer as well. So that makes me kind of old. And I'll say Jeff Long. I've dealt with Jeff long time. We used to deal with each other allen the time on budget. I was always bugging him, and he was always gracious enough to accept my meetings. And we worked a lot of stuff out together when he was a staffer in the capital. So, anyway, two good men. Thank you.

Thank you. Seeing no one further in support, anyone in opposition. Okay, we're going to go to the teleconference line again. That number 877-226-8163. Access code 243-4582. Mr. Moderator. Welcome back.

Can you let us know or let people up to speak min support or opposition? If you would like to provide public comments in support or opposition, please press 10 at this time. And Madam Chair, there are no comments.

Thank you so much. We appreciate your availability and support today. Let me bring it back to the colleagues. Would you like to make a motion for one both.

I would make a motion to confirm both Jeff Long and James O'Rourke to the POST Board.

Thank you very much. I would add that we really do appreciate your service. Obviously, multiple jobs you are undertaken. We thank you both for your experience, for your service so much. We couldn't alter cultures and change the way we do practices without your expertise. And so my thanks, and I think you got that from my colleagues as well. Madam Secretary, will you please call the roll?

Laird aye .Laird Aye ochoa bogh, aye. Ochoa bogh aye. Smallwood-cuevas Grove Atkins aye. Atkins aye. On call.

And we are going to hold that on call because I no doubt think you're going to get other votes. And we want that to be reflected in the record, and we will move this on to the full Senate for confirmation. Thank you.

Thank you.

And if I could ask my colleagues who are not here if they could make their way back, that would be helpful so that we can record. Your vote and then go into Executive session. To the Health to Health Committee. Thank you, Senator Laird. That's helpful. Okay.

Madam Secretary, will you call the rollon item 1B, Grove, B and C? I apologize. B and C together? Yes. Okay. okay, we're going to go ahead and close out that is four to zero with an absence an item 1a . Not here. Not here. So four to zero. That is good. Okay. Thank you, Madam Secretary. We will forward those on to the full Senate for confirmation. This concludes today's public portion of the agenda. I want to thank everyone who participated in public testimony today. If you were not able to testify, please submit your comments or suggestions in writing to the Rules Committee.

You can visit our website for instructions. Your comments and suggestions are important to us and we want to include your testimony in our official hearing record. With that, let me thank everyone for your patience and cooperation. The Senate Committee on Rules will now move to Executive session. Thank you.