Assembly Standing Committee on Judiciary

All right. Well, good afternoon everyone. Welcome to a very special setting of the California State Assembly Judiciary Committee. As we do not have quorum at the moment, we can start as a Subcommitee.

But I just want to let folks know that on the in regards to the Bill on the agenda, witnesses will have approximately two minutes to testify in support of or opposition to the Bill. Additional witnesses should state only their name, organization, if any, and their position on the Bill. So we will proceed with AB 1349. Assemblymember Bryan, whenever you're ready.

Thank you. Mr. Chair and colleagues. I'm here to present AB 1349, a bill that among other things, ends the practice of speculative ticketing by requiring that sellers of tickets own or have a contractual right to sell the ticket before listing it on a resale platform.

Before I begin, I want to thank the Committee for their always incredible work on the bill and I will of course accept the Committee amendments.

Every year, fans across the state who are trying to see their favorite artists are deceived by sellers that don't have tickets and don't have a right to sell the tickets, but list those tickets online anyway and at a markup. This harmful practice is known as speculative ticketing and is an inherently anti consumer.

In the vast majority of cases, the seller does not disclose to the consumer that it's a speculative ticket and when they click Buy now, fans aren't actually buying anything tangible.

In fact, unknowingly, fans are making sort of a calculated bet paying up front that a bot or a scalper will be able to buy a ticket at some point at a lower price and then be able to fulfill the agreement for the posted price that the consumer paid.

And in many instances fans are left without tickets altogether, showing up at venues empty handed and having to be turned away. There are many examples of fans getting price gouged by the practice of spec ticketing at a seller's spec ticket listed and sold for the Taylor Swift eras concert tickets for thousands of dollars above face value.

This happens in all genres. Church, who's a country artist who's going on tour this year, right now if you look up Eric church tour tickets 2025 and I do this every Committee for a different artist. There will be a listing on the secondary market for the November 13th concert here in Sacramento.

What's crazy about that is the pre sale for those official tickets do not start until May 5th. This is unacceptable. It's anti consumer and there's no way for those tickets to be listed at a price where right now that is not marked up from the price that they will go on sale next week.

It'd be bad for business for anybody to do anything but mark up those speculative tickets. AB 1349 prohibits speculative ticketing and requires ticket sellers to own, possess, or have a contractual right to sell the tickets before listing them. It prioritizes transparency by both requiring resellers and platforms reseller platforms to disclose seat locations to consumers.

Additionally, secondary platforms need to maintain records of those sales deposits and be able to issue refunds. AB 1349 also bans fake websites that mimic official event platforms that confuse and trick consumers by using terms like sold out before tickets have even gone on sale.

It increases penalties for violators and makes sure that consumers are always, always at the front of all of our minds.

This Bill prioritizes transparent parents, it protects consumers, it supports fans and artists and the experience that they both share with me to testify is Julie Baker, who is the CEO of California Arts Advocates, and the Incredible James Fauntleroy, who's a four time Grammy winning award artist, songwriter and producer.

I want the incredible in front of. My we'll start with the Incredible Julie Baker. How about that?

The Grammys. You're incredible to me, all right.

I haven't authored any Beyonce songs in my future Good morning Chairperson and Members. My name is Julie Baker, CEO of California Arts Advocates, representing over 4,000 nonprofit performing arts organizations statewide.

These organizations employ nearly 40,000 individuals and annually serve millions of patrons, providing affordable arts access, educational opportunities and significant economic impact to communities throughout California, often with very tight budgets. We are here today to strongly advocate for your support of AB 1349. Currently, secondary ticket market platforms are profiting from our productions without contributing to the shows themselves.

While initially intended for consumers to resell their own tickets, these platforms have evolved into large businesses that financially benefit from our small venues, the artists, and the dedicated arts workers who bring live entertainment to California communities. Compounding the issue, many nonprofit venues utilize basic CRM platforms for memberships and RSBPs instead of traditional ticketing systems.

Despite this, they are still confronted with fraudulent listings for their shows on secondary platforms and deceptive websites that frequently involve the unauthorized use of their names, logos and likenesses to mislead the public. This is just one example of many from the CEO of the San Jose Symphony. Quote this has been such a problem for us this year.

Our ticket sales have been popular, so we're starting to see a lot of resellers pick up tickets that either sell them for five times the value or they don't sell them. Then they call the credit card company and claim it was a bogus charge. We then get stuck with a processing fee, $35 per transaction.

Not to mention, we weren't able to sell those tickets, which we would have. We did Nutcracker this year. A fan favorite. And I felt so bad for these families that paid hundreds of dollars over ticket price because they went to a reseller.

These deceptive practices confuse ticket buyers, harm the reputations of our organizations, and divert crucial revenue away from community arts programs. AB 1349 offers a solution by prohibiting speculative ticket sales, banning impersonator websites, mandating price transparency, and empowering artists and venues to safeguard their audiences. This bill is vital to the continued operation of community stages across California.

California is a national leader in the arts, but we are behind on this type of legislation. We urge you to also make California a leader in consumer protection by voting Aye on AB 1349. Thank you.

Thank you.

My turn. Yes, sir. All right, let me take my notes out. Thank you, chairs and Members. My name is James Fauntleroy. As Assembly Member Brian mentioned. I'm an artist, songwriter and producer who's dedicated my life to creating music that connects with people on a deep, emotional level.

To describe everything I've done would take the rest of our meeting today. I've got four Grammys out of seven nominations. So that's robbed three times, but won four. I've worked with Bruno, Kendrick and Drake, Jay-Z and Beyonce, Rihanna, Lady Gaga, SZA, Justin Timberlake.

Because of the recent single I have out Die with a Smile with Bruno Mars and Lady Gaga. Please check it out after the meeting. Okay. You know. I've been the biggest songwriter on Earth for 192 days. I don't know how long it's going to last. Depends on if you stream the song after this or not.

Also, I want to add that about eight years ago, I founded a music school in Inglewood called the Family 1500 Sound Academy that's expanded to Asia with locations in Taiwan and Beijing and more opening in Asia.

I have a partnership with the Goodwill where they own part of the Master, where we release some music that donates to charity automatically when you support it. I'm launching a studio program with the Juvenile Department of Corrections, and I'm also launching an economic and workforce development program that I'll bring back at the end of this.

I'm here to express my strong support for AB 1349, which is Bill, obviously, this incredible woman. Just let us know. That'll protect both artists and fans from predatory ticket practices, particularly the harmful and deceptive practice of spec ticketing. As a writer, a creator, I spent my entire life dedicated to this.

And initially, obviously everybody is allured by the shiny things you can possibly buy.

But over time, I've had an experience that has really let me know the power and the importance of what we're doing, not only as a service, but like she said, the people that are served across the state and the country and the world from what we're doing, spectacular, as they've both already described to you guys, really has a negative impact, which we've all, I'm sure experienced it.

People talking about negatively, something that seems really small. But a negative press that an artist can have can potentially impact literally thousands of people. One, because of my work with these artists, I'm able to do all those programs that I just described.

But also there's thousands of people employed in Venues, thousands of people that work on the writing. It's just a lot more people that are impacted even by like a Taylor Swift or somebody who might be hard to have sympathy for. There are thousands and thousands of other people who are impacted by this type of practice.

This bill acknowledges something to me also as a performer, eight sold out shows at the Blue Note. If anybody wants to check me out next time, acknowledging something really important to me. Live performances are a critical part of our expression and they deserve to be protected from deceptive practices like spec ticketing.

And as artists, we strive to create meaningful experiences that bring people together. This bill is a step towards preserving the magic of live performances, ensuring that fans and artists can continue to thrive together and that the thousands of people that are impacted by this business and service are also protected and supported.

In addition to the consumers and this incredible woman here, I'm here today. Thank you for your time to support AB 1349 with my boy Isaac Bryan. And that's all I have to say.

Is there anyone else here in support of AB 1349?

Good afternoon. Jordan Curley, on behalf of the Music Artists Coalition, proud co-sponsor in support.

Thank you. Good afternoon chair and Members. Alex Torres, on behalf of the National. Independent Venue Association, representing over 500 brick and mortar independently owned and operated music venues and festivals. With the indulgence of the Chair, I. Have some folks who couldn't be here today. Sure.

On behalf of the independent and the Riptide and outside Lands in San Francisco, the Hutmong Tavern in Nevado, the Troubadour in Santa Monica, the Fox Theater in Bakersfield, All NAVA Members, all independent, all in support. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.

Chairman and Members. Eli Garcia for Live Nation Entertainment in support. Thank you.

Good morning, Mr. Chair. Members, Dylan Hoffman, on behalf of the San Francisco Symphony and the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco, both in strong support. Thank you. Thank you.

Hi, I'm a bit of a tweener here. Melissa Cortese, on behalf of The San Francisco 49ers, the San Francisco Giants, the A's, the Los Angeles Dodgers, the Los Angeles Angels and the San Diego Padres, we do support the concept of banning the sale of speculative tickets.

There are some implementation issues with the bill that we've worked with the author's office on. Some are outlined in the analysis. We look forward to continued conversations with the author's office and believe we can get to a full support facility. Thank you.

Thank you.

Tim lynch, on behalf of the Golden State Warriors. And we just reflect the comments of the colleague before.

Go Warriors. Thank you.

Come on now, Mr. Chairman.

I mean, I could say go Lakers, but that doesn't really apply anymore.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman. Members, Alan Kidani representing the. The other parts of Los Angeles that my colleague does not represent. The-The Rams and the Clippers share the sentiment of my colleagues have full faith that we can work with the author on those implementation issues. It's where the devil is in the details. So thank you very much.

Thank you. Before we get to opposition, can we establish quorum, please? Kalra. Here.

Dixon. B. Brian. Bauer-Kahan. Connolly. Harabedian. Pacheco. Here. Papan.

No place I'd rather be. Here. Oh.

Sanchez.

Here.

Stefani.

Here.

Zbur.

Here.

All right, we have a quorum. Is there anyone here in opposition to AB 1349?

I was looking for you.

I was right there. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and Members. Robert Harrell. I'm the Executive Director of the Consumer Federation of California. First of all, we'd like to thank. We've had some productive conversations with the author. Appreciate the time that he's given us to go through some of the issues in the bill.

We also appreciate the work of the Committee and the analysis, which is thorough. I won't raise the issue of constructive possession because you've dealt with it quite well in the analysis. And my understanding. I don't know if he's taken the amendments yet, but that's going to be part of the motion here today.

I want to point out a couple of things that I think are additional information that should be relevant to put this in context.

And then I'd like to drill down on a couple of provisions in the bill that we think are problematic that we just want to point out to the Committee as our conversations continue, number one, this week, by a vote of 409 to 15, I'll repeat that, 409 to 15, the US House of Representatives pass the Ticket Act.

Many of the groups supporting the bill today, I have their statements, support the Ticketing Act. We support the Ticketing Act. So to the extent that Mr. Fauntleroy is able to bring Drake and Kendrick Lamar together, perhaps there's an opportunity here to bring the warring factions together.

We think on many of the issues in this bill, whether it's speculative ticketing or, or spoofing websites, all of which we oppose, there is superior language in the Ticket Act.

And I will say for those of you who know me, that's not a sentence that I get to utter very often in the California Legislature that actually the approach on Capitol Hill on some of these issues is superior. That's a multi year process, by the way, as this has been to a certain degree.

So I want to point that out. Part of the reason we're here today is this lawsuit, this lawsuit filed almost a year ago by the Federal Department of Justice described in the analysis and 39 of the 50 states plus D.C. so that's a monopoly assertion and market power.

And you can't have a conversation about what's happening in this industry without thinking about the ways, both intentional and and unintentional, that monopoly and market power permeates the consumer experience, the artist experience, the whole ecosystem, if you will, of live entertainment. The author of the bill and I share a love of attending events.

We've now compared notes about some of those. And so there's no disagreement there. But there are some specifics. And most of the specifics that we have a beef with relate to what I'm going to refer to as the terms and conditions problem.

And that is to say that when you have a market that is overwhelmed by a monopoly, and I'm not saying that all the NEVA Members are not using the monopoly Ticketmaster. Some are not. Some are.

And whether they have a choice or not, in some cases you kind of use them because you don't have a choice and you don't want to have a venue that's not going to have shows. Because what this lawsuit shows is is that when you try to cross the monopoly, they blackball you.

Thank you.

So the terms and conditions issues which appear in section.

Thank you, sir.

You far over time we'll continue those. Conversations, but that's the beef we have. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Yeah. Good afternoon. Morning. Not sure. Jamie Minor representing Stubhub we try and compete with Ticketmaster in the resale secondary market sales. We regrettably have to oppose the Bill in its current form. We do want to applaud the author for taking on speculative ticketing. No person should sell a ticket they never purchased or were given.

If someone buys a ticket on our platform that is speculative and they don't ever receive the ticket, they are never going to use our platform again. We have every incentive to solve this issue, and you have our commitment to find language that does that. This bill takes on a righteous problem set.

However, it's the solution we take issue with. In the State of New York, a state that has its own strong profile of live events and of course, including independent Broadway theaters, this problem does not exist.

That is because for the last decade, when you buy a ticket in the State of New York, that ticket is provided to you and you can sell it and you can give it away. You can do what you want with it.

No entity, not even Ticketmaster, which controls more than 80% of the primary market and is an increasingly large player on the resale market, can tell you what you can do with that ticket.

On page 15 of the excellent balance Committee analysis, there is a question raised on how this bill could block a consumer's right to transfer a ticket to another consumer. And it's a good one. It's what Robert was getting at. This bill defines a ticket as a license, so you don't own it 80% of the time.

Ticketmaster owns it. In a state like New York, consumers don't ever have to question if their tickets are speculative because they have it. They're protected. There's no room for mystery or fraudulent behavior. Were not as lucky in California. I'm very honored to be in the presence of such a great creator.

He brought up his work with Justin Timberlake. I'm glad he did. Because when Justin Timberlake was touring in Sacramento earlier this year, days before the event, Live Nation decided to block transfer of consumer tickets. So what happened?

We got frantic calls from staff in this building when they were simply trying to sell their ticket because they couldn't attend and they wanted to recoup some of the costs after a spouse can go. This is the definition of an unfair term and condition that this bill seeks to codify.

So we want to keep working on these issues. We appreciate the amendments today. We appreciate the issues and the analysis, but for these reasons, we must oppose.

Thank you. Is there anyone else here in opposition to AB 1349?

Mr. Chair and Members, Courtney Jensen, on behalf of Sea Geek and Tick pick in opposition.

Thank you.

Hey there. Tish Rylander on behalf of Vivid seats and opposed unless amended. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, bring it back to Committee.

Assembly Member Zbur this is clearly a consumer protection piece of legislation and I don't think there's anyone in in our body that is actually more focused on protecting consumers.

I'd love to be added as a co author to the legislation and I have complete confidence that that the author is going to work with the Consumer Federation and others because his perspective is. About consumers and I know that he's going to get to a good place. And thank you for bringing this bill.

Thank you, Senator Pacheco.

Thank you. I also want to thank the author for bringing this legislation forward. I'm sure you're going to make a commitment, but I have to ask, are you committed to working with the opposition?

Absolutely. We had a that a couple meetings recently, one in the street and one in the office. We are progressing and we'll keep an open door. But but also we want to work through these issues. The idea that we could bring both sides together.

I wasn't sure if anyone would ever say that out loud, but I think maybe there is potential and I'd like to find it.

And I can tell that there's conversations happening if he already knows the concerts that you're attending, sharing notes.

So we may go to one together. I don't know.

I applaud you for it and I will be voting for your bill today. Thank you.

Thank you Assembly Harabadian thank you, Mr. Chair. Absolutely. We'll be supporting the bill. I want to thank the author. I do have full confidence that the author is going to land this plan and get to a good place with the opposition. From my perspective, I think a lot of good points were brought up by the opposition.

I do think it's always hard to pass a bill or any piece of legislation in the midst of a big lawsuit, especially one like this at the scale that it is with the anti competitive nature of the underlying dispute.

And I do think that we have to be careful as to not tip any evidence or any sort of presumption with this bill in that regard. And I think you will make sure we don't do that. And I do think that the terms and conditions problem is a salient one. I think we will address that.

And obviously the fake websites, let's root out the fake websites for sure. That is an issue that I think all of us have dealt with. Obviously we want to make sure that we're rooting those out and also allowing legitimate secondary sellers to continue with their market practices. And I also want to thank the staff.

I think the King Kong versus Godzilla analogy was spot on. So thanks for everything.

Any other questions or comments, Assembly Member Stefani?

Thank you, Chair. I want to align myself with the comments of my colleagues. And thank you for taking this on. I lost some money on some Harry Potter tickets a while back. The cursed child. Yeah. Don't forget to buy him again, because I couldn't admit it to my daughter. So. But thank you for taking this on.

There was this concern about making the existing monopolies even stronger, like some unintended consequences. And I just want to make sure that I voice that, too. And it sounds like you'll be working on those issues as well, but I just wanted to mention that as well. Thanks.

Assemblymember Papan.

Well, I gotta chime in to thank you, and I do want to see that nuance worked out, but anything to protect the consumer. I got a husband that spends a lot of time going to concerts. I've been stuck with tickets that I'm not happy about as a wife. Do what you can to help the marriage.

And I appreciate the effort, but that's my goal. Deal with. That's your role. Thank you so much.

We have a motion and a second. And I also want to thank the author. Look, I mean, this is something that I think a lot of folks would be hesitant to touch because the issue is that challenging. But we know our colleague doesn't stray away from difficult issues and difficult conversations.

And so I'm very happy to see that. Senator Bryan, you're the one that's taking on this challenge. I'm glad that the issue constructed possession, which is an important one that was raised, is already one that you've moved on. And there's a lot more conversations to go.

And I think the situation here is interesting because it's kind of like that old proverb, when elephants bite, it's the grass that dies. So in this case, like, you know, I'm concerned about the consumers, the small arts groups, it's the artists. And you're gonna.

You're gonna have these battles that are going to kind of be above all that. Our focus here, though, should be on the folks that are hurting the most right now with the status quo. And so I think that this is a situation where a lot more work is going to happen. I know it will.

And I appreciate some of the sports teams coming there. They have unique situations. And I know that the author's already talking with them about that in terms of how they arrange their season tickets and all that. So I'm sure that'll get rectified.

But in terms of working with the opposition at the table, I'm confident those conversations will continue. I don't know if this piece of legislation is the one that's going to deal with monopolies, quite frankly.

I think what we're trying to focus on is the impact on consumers and our artists and the small theater groups and what have you that were mentioned.

I also agree, in a very short turnaround, a phenomenal analysis from Sharon, from our staff, because you can spend weeks putting together analysis on this, and just having a couple days makes it kind of challenging. So I appreciate the recognition of that. And would you like to close? Senator Bryan yeah, no.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, colleagues, and to the team for putting this together. This is an important issue, and as the chair mentioned, this is not the bill that is going to tip the scale or decide the outcome of litigation. And I actually have no interest in weighing into that.

Whether it's King Kong and Godzilla or two elephants going at each other, my focus is definitely the grass. It is the everyday people who go to shows.

And similar to many of you on the dais, my wife and I love going to shows from Harry Potter to the Cursed Child or Dreamville Fest in North Carolina, what James wrote, Bourne center and so many other shows.

And what's unfortunate for consumers is before a show is even on sale or the presale, people are selling the tickets at a markup. Tickets. They don't have tickets. They may not ever have tickets that the opposition has mentioned.

They do every best effort to have in an effort to keep customer acquisition because the reputation of not having it is not something you want to spread, but that doesn't denounce the practice itself. You should not be able to sell tickets that you don't have yet.

And I do agree with the opposition that when you buy a ticket, that's your ticket. And I have participated on that side of things as well. But this is an easy problem to solve. It's a problem we should have solved a long time ago.

It's a problem we shouldn't let fall to the wayside while other things are happening, including in D.C. and we're happy to look at what's happening in D.C. to the extent that we're not distracted by something else that is happening in D.C.

this is an important piece of legislation, and I want to thank my witnesses for coming and testifying. And I respectfully ask for your aye vote thank you.

Motion is due Pass as amended to appropriations Kalra Aye. Kalra aye Dixon. Bauer-Kahan. Bryan Aye. Bryan Aye. Connolly. Connolly Aye. Harabedian. Aye. Harabidean. Aye. Macedo not voting Pacheco Aye. Pacheco Aye. Papan Aye. Papan aye Sanchez. Sanchez aye. Stephanie. Stephanie aye Zbur. Zbur. Aye.

Right. That bill is out. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Okay. Thank you we just I want to make sure.

So Kate Sanchez is a Republican so it's bipartisan

We are going to add on votes Vice Chair Dixon at the moment.

[Roll Call]

Thank you. We are adjourned. Thank you.