Senate Standing Committee on Military and Veterans Affairs

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Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, to our veterans who are here with us today. Thank you for your service. God bless you. And as we approach Memorial Day in the month of May, again all of us will be thinking of our fallen comrades, our heroes who are not with us. So as we begin, we will think of them.

We'll think of the veterans we serve. And we do it with such pride and honor and dignity that I think they'll. They'll be proud of us today. And God willing, that'll happen.

So I would like to also mention that to my left, your right, I have Assembly Chair Schiavo, who is the chair of the Assembly Military and Veterans Affairs Committee. And I would like to go ahead and. You know what? I think I'll go ahead and allow you to begin your opening remarks. Madam Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Chair. Good morning. I want to welcome you to the joint informational hearing of the Senate and Assembly Committee on Military and Veteran Affairs. Today's hearing will provide an update on the critical work of county veteran service officers and calvet's supportive role.

Our shared goal is to ensure that the service Members stand in California and when they separate from the military, that this is where they will stay for the long term. In the last decade, we've lost almost half of our veteran population to other states.

Between legislation this session that will provide income and property tax relief promised to veterans and the work that CVSOS and CALVET do to support our veteran population, we can ensure that soldiers serving in our state can continue to call California home. Reading through the 2024 annual report, it emphasizes the return on investment that states can make.

Last year, CVSO secured $579 million in new VA benefits awarded to veterans, which is phenomenal. And for every $1 the state spent, it brought more than $90 in benefits to California veterans. This is why it's vital that California continues investing in CvsOs and the existing systems that serve our veterans.

And I will leave it at that and turn it back over to our chair. Thank you.

Thank you so very much. Again, I'm Senator Bob Archuleta. I'm the chair of the Committee and representing the Senate side of it all. But I would like to also add to some of the comments that were made by our Vice Chair or co-chair.

I should say the county Veterans Service Officers are some of the most competent and most vital individuals when it comes to representing our veterans. Claim filers a lot of work, but the State of California owes you a debt of gratitude. Our veterans owes you a debt of gratitude for yourselves.

Your Lives, your time, your commitment, your passion for veterans, all of you who are veteran service officers, you perform the very, very important job listening to our veterans, telling their stories, exchanging stories, and basically getting them to release this monster that's within them, whether it pertains to ptsd, a loss of a buddy, physical problems when they may have whatever it might be.

But you in turn translate that pain and agony into stories that they can carry to the VA with your guidance, the traumas, the injuries, whatever it might be, in service to our country. So filing claims is obviously, as you all know, our veteran service officers, it's time consuming, mentally defeating sometimes, and it's so difficult.

But the veterans, they seem to walk away from the process. Whether they're talking to you directly or they're talking to the VA, it is tough to keep them focused because the trauma keeps coming back. And you know what I'm talking about. And the family knows, knows what we're talking about.

These veterans that you deal with day in and day out, their families are suffering as well. So regardless of the age of the children, regardless of the age of the veteran, it just never seems to leave them.

So your participation in their lives is so vital, as I mentioned, and the county Veterans Service Officers, the jobs that you've taken on, I don't see it as a job. I see it as a calling, a passion to serve and represent these veterans. You are their boots on the ground.

And I'm delighted to hear that our county Veterans Service Officers today are doing more than they've ever done in the past, being accredited. It is so vital you provide professional, accredited service. And that's the thing. But we've got to increase your ranks.

And that's why this portion of the hearing is so important, so we can all see and understand why it's so important because of the fact that we have so many veterans. I hear it time and time again, one veteran is trying to get in the door and he's been waiting months. Why? Because you're workload is so immense.

So the families are waiting, California is waiting. And I'm so glad that you're here. So this hearing today will give you an opportunity to share with us the things that you do on a daily basis, the process that you have established.

But I'd like to think which is equally as important, serving and representing our veterans, the accreditation that you've accomplished and the accountability of your office and your staff. So we'll begin today with the our first panelists. And we have two. So our first let's we have. Let me go ahead and read the names.

So then we'll bring you up. But we'll be talking with David West, Nevada County Veterans Service Officer and President of the California Association of Veterans Service Officers. We have Jim Zinner. So Dave, why don't you come on up first and we'll get Jim Zinner, Los Angeles County Veterans Service Officer and Legislative Chair of the Association.

And we'll also hear from Morgan Boyd, San Luis Obispo County Veterans Service Officer. And we'll see on zoom Katherine Lubinsky, Director of Studies, Center for a New American Security. And Kate will bring you on board just in a little bit. So we'll be looking at the monitors.

So David West, go ahead and let's kick it off with you. Good morning.

Good morning. Chair Archuleta, Chair Schiavo and esteemed Members of the Committees, thank you for the opportunity to appear for you today and speak on behalf of California's County Veterans Services Officers and the veterans we are honored to serve. My name is David West. I serve as President of the California Association of County Veterans Services Officers.

I'd like to share with you a glimpse of the work that my colleagues, California's County Veterans Service Officers and their staff perform across the state every day on behalf of the 1.4 million veterans and the families in our state.

At CVSOS, we often serve as the first point of contact for veterans, their spouses and their family Members when they begin navigating the often complex process of accessing the benefits they have rightfully earned through service to this country.

These benefits and services are ones that veterans have earned through their service to our nation, but services that are not automatically awarded. Rather, the veterans must initiate claims, submit detailed documentation, and overcome bureaucratic obstacles to receive what they are entitled to.

From the moment a service Member receives their DD214, they begin a journey that continues throughout their life, encompassing transitional challenges, health issues, family milestones, and ultimately end of life planning and survival assistance.

We as CVSOs are present and engaged at each step of this journey, providing support by filing initial disability compensation claims and ensuring that dependents are properly added to their benefit awards.

CVSOs and our staff are the ones facilitating the paperwork required for tuition waivers for children, adjusting benefits as veterans age and face new health challenges, and assisting families with accessing survivor benefits after the passing of their loved ones. We do not operate on a one time engagement model.

Instead, we build lifelong relationships with veterans, advocating for them across decades to ensure their evolving needs are met. We provide these services not for profit, not for recognition and not through coercive arrangements, but because we believe it is our fundamental duty to those who served. Our mission has been and will continue to be clear.

We are here to connect every one of California's veterans and their families through the benefits and services they earned. The data confirms the reach and efficacy of our work. Although California is home to approximately 8% of the nation's veteran population, our CVSO submitted 12% of all claims received by the United States Department of Veterans affairs last year.

This accomplishment is not the result of marketing tactics or profit motives, but rather the fee is the product of CVSO's trusted relationships, outstanding service and deep professional expertise. But our work extends far beyond submitting claims. We serve as a local safety net for the veterans in our communities.

Veterans needs are multifaceted and interconnected, involving not only benefits claims but also housing, health care, food security, child care and family support.

Veterans status functions as social detriment of health and it is within this broader context that CVSOs operate, often in collaboration with agencies such as WIC, Adulter Protective Services and County Department of Social Services to ensure that veterans receive comprehensive and culturally competent care.

These agencies are not always equipped to identify veterans or understand their unique entitlements, which is why the partnerships we build are essential in preventing veterans from falling through the cracks of public service systems. For example, a young woman who served in Iraq shows up at WIC for formula for her child.

It is often through our integrated partnerships that she learns for the first time that she is eligible for health care, childcare and disability support, whether that be veteran healthcare enrollment, child care assistance or service connected disability benefits. These services the General county safety net is not always aware of.

This type of intervention is not just sound policy, it is life changing support that bridges the gap between needs and access.

Despite our effectiveness, CVSOs operate with limited financial resources, supported primarily by three funding sources the State General Fund, which provides 11 million annually distributed according to audited workload units the MEDI Cal Cost Avoidance Program, which supplies just $838,000 despite enabling millions of dollars in savings by transferring care from the state to the VA and the Veterans Services Office Fund, which is funded through the sale of veterans license plates and provides only $554,000 annually for administrative support.

While we are grateful for these funds, they are grossly inadequate for the level of service we are required and and the growing demand placed on our offices. Prior to 2021, the General Fund allocation was only 5.6 million. Although it was raised to 11 million that year, it has not increased since.

Even as demand continued to grow, especially since the PACT Act. In the governor's proposed 2025 budget, CalVet is set to receive 565 million in General funds with 4,421 million dedicated to veterans homes that serve approximately 1500 residents at an average annual cost of $280,000 per person.

In contrast, the 11 million allocated to CVSO is expected to serve 1.4 million veterans and their families, which accounting only for veterans, translates to just $7.86 cents per veteran annually. And that number goes down when you include the child fee, the college fee waivers and the other things.

This is not a critique of the service provided by veterans homes, which are vital, but rather a call to recognize the disproportionate underinvestment in the system that serves the vast majority of California's veterans. CVSO's funding represents just 2% of Calvesta General Fund budget and a mere 0.005% of the state's total General Fund spending.

The consequences of this underfunding extend beyond service limitations. They open the door to exploitation by predatory for profit claims agents who have begun operating across this state.

These individuals and companies charge exorbitant fees to veterans for claim services as CvsOs and other representatives provide at no cost binding vulnerable individuals to contracts that extract a portion of their hard earned benefits. The underfunding is driving veterans to for profit agents that are charging veterans for services as CVSOs and federally recognized representatives provide for free.

These for profit actors often operate without credentials or oversight, presenting themselves as advocates while offering no accountability or no follow up and no long term support. At the same time, the State of California reimburses county only $78 per claim which is a fraction of the actual value of the comprehensive accredited assistance CVSOs provide.

Intentional or not, $78 is the monetary value that the state currently places on thorough, detailed and compassionate work performed by a CVSO to guide a veteran through an often complicated and life changing process.

How is it that we as a state can justify allowing for profit agents to charge a veteran thousands of dollars for work that our circularly reimburses local county government at $78?

We would never allow a single mother to be charged for profit, but we would never allow a single mother to be charged by a for profit individual to apply for SNAP benefits.

We would never allow senior citizens to be charged by a private company for submitting IHSS applications and yet we are standing by as veterans are exploited by these companies. This disparity is indefensible.

We would never allow for a for profit party to charge a low income parent to file for food assistance or permit a senior citizen to pay for a private company to submit an application for him for in home support. Yet this is exactly what is happening to our veterans and we are allowing it to continue unchecked.

Federal law prohibits these practices, but a political decision years ago removes the enforcement provisions leaving the statute ineffective. Many of these companies have received federal cease and desist orders, but because there are no penalties they continue to operate freely, some even establishing stories offices in our own communities.

It is deeply troubling that some of these actors have been welcomed to our Capitol under the guise of consumer choice to argue for the legitimacy of businesses that are violation of federal and state law while continuing to exploit those who served.

It has also been suggested that these companies are run by veterans who are simply trying to help, but the fact that someone once served does not legitimize illegal conduct. This is not to say that they shouldn't have options.

These individuals and companies do have options, but the current legalized option was limit and impede their ability to charge and they would be held to a standard the rest of us must abide by.

These companies could operate legally and become accredited and offering their services free of charge, but they refuse to do so because their business model relies on siphoning off the benefits veterans have earned.

Again, federal and state laws already prohibit these practices, but without enforcement and without strong accessible and well funded alternatives, these companies will continue to cause real harm.

This is why I am here today to request a Legislator to meet the commitment that was set forth in the California Military and Veterans Code of the Legislature's intent to Fund 50% of county veterans services operation budget.

With sustained investment we can expand our staff, reduce backlogs, modernize our claim systems, extend our reach into underserved communities and eliminate the need for veterans to rely on for profit agents. This need is for increased funding is not a concession that we are falling short on our mission. Far from it.

It is a recognition that the threats to our veterans from for profit agents are growing precisely because we've been under resourced for far too long. We are not standing still.

On June 19 and 20th, 15 to 18, CVSOs will meet at Calvet Headquarters to launch the CACVSO Mentorship and Fellowship Program, a statewide initiative designed to standardize training, flatten the learning curve for new officers and elevate service consistency across counties. We are already doing the work. What we need now is your support.

As I close, I want to highlight the cacvso's legislative priorities based on the work of the CVSO across the state. Our top legislative priorities are addressing the issue of for profit claims companies and representative property tax relief for disabled veterans and legislation aimed at state income tax relief for military retirees and their surviving spouses.

Recognizing the benefits, claims and taxes are not something we can address locally. Transition and retention is an opportunity that CVSOs can truly support. This is an opportunity to support counties in adapting elements of the Los Angeles County model in ways that reflect local veteran populations and available resources.

One such opportunity is the Calvet program currently supported through Prop 63, which will soon become Prop 1. While this program has already had a positive impact, funding limitations restricted to just 14 counties at close to 1.6 million during fiscal year 22, 23.

Enhancing this program could strengthen the infrastructure for veteran behavioral health services statewide, especially for those who do not qualify for federal VA care. With a more flexible and inclusive approach, we can better connect county programs, build stronger local systems, and ensure proper own resources are reaching the veterans who need them most.

California's veterans deserve the very best our state can offer. They have kept their promise to our country. It's time we keep ours to them. With your support, we can assure that every veteran in the state receives timely, accurate and dignified access to the benefits they have earned.

Thank you for your time and for your steadfast commitment to California's veterans and their families.

What we're going to do is allow each one of you to speak and then we'll go ahead and come back at you with some questions and comments. So with that, thank you for your presentation, Dave. I really appreciate it. A lot of great points. We'll come back and cover those.

So let's now hear from Jim Zenner, Los Angeles County Veterans Service Officer and Legislative Chair of the Association.

Jim, thank you and good morning chairs and Committee Members. My name is Jim Zenner and I have the privilege of serving as LA County's Director of Military and Veteran affairs as well as Los Angeles serving as Los Angeles County's Veterans Service Officer.

This structure is critical because it ensures that through a county Department head, the voice of veterans is heard directly at the table where policy and resource decisions are made, not just in the back offices where forms are filed.

Los Angeles County is home to more than 203,000 veterans who represent every branch of the military, every area of service, and every background. These Veterans live across 88 cities and more than 125 unincorporated areas, making them as geographically dispersed as they are diverse. The geographic spread creates unique challenges in delivering services consistently, equitably.

Access to veteran services and benefits should not depend on where a veteran lives. But unfortunately, in practice, it does. When a veteran lives far from services where services are located, lacks adequate transportation, or is isolated, their ability to access benefits and care they earned becomes limited. Fragmented systems, strict eligibility rules and jurisdictional complexity often deepens these gaps.

As a result, too many veterans are left to navigate a complex and confusing system alone. In LA County, we are working hard to change that reality. With the leadership and investment of the LA County Board of Supervisors, we have built a model designed to meet veterans where they are both physically and emotionally.

We follow a no wrong door approach. This means that regardless of where or how a veteran connects with us, whether it's Bob Hope Patriotic hall through a county Department, in a jail, at an encampment, or during a mental health crisis, they are not turned away. While there are limits to the services, a veteran can be connected.

We do not begin by asking whether someone qualifies for a federal program. We begin by asking what they need and how we can help. As you know, access to federal veteran services depends on meeting eligibility requirements. For example, veterans with other than honorable discharge or lower often find their options limited or entirely restricted.

And that's about 15% of our veterans in LA County. Unfortunately, these same veterans are often those in deepest crisis. They are living with trauma, battling untreated mental health conditions, or dealing with the long term impacts of military service. In LA County, we do not exclude them. If a veteran served, we serve them.

We were able to do this because our Board of Supervisors empowered our Department to lead and and take action. They have invested local dollars, supported innovative programs and trusted our Department to take action when and where it's needed.

We have embraced the authority granted under state statute for county Veteran service officers to provide any veteran related services the Board sees as necessary. This authority has often been underutilized across the state. In LA County, we've been putting it into action. Using local funding, we created the Veteran Peer access network or VPAN.

This initiative deploys 45 trained veteran peer navigators throughout the community. VPAN has serves in between three to four and a half thousand veterans and their family Members a year. These are veterans supporting other veterans, building trust, providing culturally competent assistance and connecting peers to services in a compassionate and effective way.

It is also a very successful workforce development program. One success I'd like to highlight is that 20% of veterans served through VPAN are women. This is twice the percentage of women in the veteran population and reflects our commitment to inclusivity and outreach.

We also make sure to build partnerships and identify government and community resources so that we can support veterans who are not eligible for federal services. We identify what is available and connect them accordingly. Another initiative we launch is the Veterans Suicide Review Team, or VSRT.

Using local resources, we work with the VA County Medical examiner, Public Health, Mental Health and other partners to examine veteran suicides and identify missed opportunities for intervention. This is what's commonly known as a suicide fatality review.

What we're looking for is trends that led up to a veteran's death so that we can more target those areas where veterans intercede on their way to taking their own lives. This work is complicated by legal and privacy constraints, but is absolutely necessary.

Since VPAN's inception, we have seen over a 20% reduction in veteran suicides in the county. While this is meaningful progress, our work is far from done. Through our Justice Involved Veteran Division, we support veterans who are currently in or at risk of entering the criminal justice system.

We partner with the courts, the Sheriff's Department, reentry programs and community providers to assure these veterans receive care rather than punishment whenever possible. Many of these individuals suffer from untreated trauma or substance use disorders tied directly to their military service in our county jails.

Preliminary data shows that approximately 47% of veterans identified in custody are not eligible for VA health care. That's over three times the General number of 15% throughout the county. It underscores the importance of our local role in filling these gaps. The LA County Sheriff's Department has been a tremendous partner in this work.

With their help, we are identifying veterans in custody and making sure they are supported. Additionally, in collaboration with our Department of Mental Health, the Sheriff's Department has also created specially trained deputies and Clinicians assigned to the County Mental Evaluation Team. Many of these deputies are veterans themselves and are trained to respond with Clinicians to veterans in crisis.

With understanding and compassion. These teams work directly with VA police and our Department to divert veterans from justice systems into care systems. Once the crisis ends, the veteran is connected to a VSO and a VPAN staff to ensure long term support continues.

The Board of Supervisors has also used the the county's Emergency Declaration on Homelessness to strengthen our focus on veterans experiencing homelessness. To quote the Chair of the Board, the words homeless and veteran should never appear in the same sentence. That is not just a statement, it's our mission.

Our homeless veterans response is not limited to outreach or point in time counts. With the Board support, we created a coordinated one team model in partnership with the US Department of Veteran Affairs.

This model brings together decision makers from the VA and county agencies as well as community providers for regular meetings, ensuring we leverage available resources to house veterans faster and more effectively.

Through this partnership, we have increased the numbers of veterans placed into permanent housing by over 42% per year and from 2023 to 2024 we reduced veteran homelessness by 22.9%. These outcomes are not possible because we are working across these outcomes are possible because we are working across systems and making real time decisions with real accountability.

At the heart of all this work is Bob Hope Patriotic Hall, a county owned and operated veterans memorial and service hub that will soon celebrate our 100th anniversary. This is more than a historic building, it's a living symbol of LA County's commitment to supporting veterans and their families.

Inside Patriotic Call veterans can access benefits, assistance, mental health, peer support, job resources and a wide variety of services coordinated through both county departments and community based providers. I want to reiterate that part of our success stems from being a Department head and a cvso. I am present where policy and funding decisions are made within.

The county. In many counties, the CVSO's voice is filtered through layers of government, while in LA County it is heard directly. This allows us to be agile, creative, and responsive to urgent needs. For example, during the January wildfires, our team coordinated the county, the VA, and the Red Cross to shelter veterans evacuated from the VA campus at West LA into Patriotic Hall. We are not limited to filing claims, although we do that too. We respond to crisis.

We help guide veterans through complex systems and ensure they have access to the services and support that they have earned. However, I want to be clear that we cannot do this with just county support alone. We need the State of California to recognize County Veterans Service Officers as essential assets in the broader veteran services infrastructure.

We should not be viewed as optional and we should not be reduced to the role of claim processors. We are local experts who veterans interact with regularly. Veterans are far more likely to engage with their county or city than with the state or federal government.

Maximizing county interactions and connecting to a CVSO is a starting point where a tremendous opportunity lies. CVSO should be visible, properly resourced, and directly connected to leadership in their communities. We are force multipliers, we are connectors, and when funded and supported, we are problem solvers.

Today's veterans face serious layered challenges that include housing insecurity, mental health crisis, justice involvement, aging, and poverty. LA County has shown what CVSOs can achieve when giving the tools and trust to lead. We have the outcomes to prove what is possible.

Looking ahead, what we need is not just more programs, but sustained investment and a shared commitment to scale this level of care across the state. I believe in this work because I see every day the difference it makes when we get it right because LA County chose to act and invest in its veterans. I see families restored, legal barriers addressed, and lives transformed. Thank you for your leadership and your continued commitment to the people who serve our country. Thank you.

Thank you, Jim. As we said, we'll go ahead and come back at you with some comments and questions just a little bit. So Morgan Boyd, please. Morgan Boyd is San Luis Obispo County Veterans Service Officer, and I think that hearing from you here in the northern part of the state is important as well. Please.

Thank you, Chair Archuleta, Chair Schiavo, and esteemed Members of the Committee. Again, my name is Morgan Boyd and I'm the County Veterans Services Officer and Department Head for San Luis Obispo County. I served in combat in the Iraq invasion as an enlisted cavalry scout and later in Afghanistan as a reconnaissance, surveillance, and target acquisition platoon leader.

I was medically retired from service as a captain due to combat injuries sustained in Afghanistan. I'm a proud cavalryman and airborne, Chair Archuleta. I'm honored to appear before you today and to speak on behalf of our veterans and dedicated team that serves them every single day.

First and foremost, I want to express my sincere appreciation to CalVet, particularly Deputy Secretary Roberto Herrera and his team for their continued partnership. In addition to our subvention funding, San Luis Obispo is a proud recipient of a Mental Health Services Act grant administered through CalVet.

This funding has allowed us to build and sustain a robust outreach program that brings services directly to veterans where they live, including our most vulnerable and rural underserved communities. In just the first half of this year, we participated in over 33 outreach events in engaging with over 1,900 veterans.

At these events, veterans connect with up to 40 resource providers at the local, state, and federal level. These include Stand Downs, Justice Involved Veteran Programs, and Senior Veteran Resource Fairs. Each one representing an upstream connection that reduce crisis, builds trust, and strengthens the bonds that hold our community together.

CalVet support has also enabled an innovative partnership with Transitions Mental Health, which will soon provide in person and telehealth care for a caseload of 50 veterans in San Luis Obispo County. And this is particularly critical. Our county currently leads the State of California in veteran suicide per capita.

And this is the most northern and we are the most northern county in the Los Angeles VA medical region where resources and funding opportunities to quickly react to this tragic fact are scarce. Despite the urgency of this need and the increasing workload we've taken on, our state's invention funding has not kept pace.

In fact, we've increased claims filed, increased compensation and benefits generated, passed nine consecutive audits by CalVet, and maintained a 98% client satisfaction rating. Yet we have realized precipitous reductions in our subvention funding from the state. Let me be clear. Our team is doing more with less and we're doing it well.

Last year our office helped secure 12.35 million in new and new benefits for the members of our community. We have 14,000 veterans in our county. We're not Los Angeles. That's a 30% increase over the previous year. And our return on investment is extraordinary. We're $84 in federal benefits for every dollar of state invention we receive.

And with that, we have seen slightly 30% decrease in subvention funding relative to our 30% increase in workload. We operate with four accredited veteran services representatives out of three locations across our county, one of whom is dedicated full time to serving justice involved, unhoused, and at risk veterans funded through our county's community corrections partnership AB 109 realignment.

Although we received no additional funding, our team sits on the County Health Behavioral Board, the SLO Suicide Prevention Council, the SLO Opioid Coalition, and the Vet Center's Advisory Board. We attend the by name list meetings, coordinated reentry meetings, and our justice involved rep is a member of our Veteran Treatment Court team and he's also in our county jail and Atascadero State Hospital each week to support our justice involved veterans.

We are fortunate to support programs like Operation Surf and Heroes on the Water, our Vet Center's therapeutic gardening program, and a therapeutic archery program. And I'm personally honored to serve as a volunteer fishing guide for Heroes on the Water, where we build community through kayak fishing on our beautiful Pacific Ocean and on our splendid local lakes.

Also, we maintain a veterans food pantry that is 100% donation driven where we provide sustenance to some of our communities most hungry. We are deeply proud of this work, but pride doesn't pay for accredited staff, reduce caseloads, or support the expansion of outreach programs. It's time for funding to reflect the reality of our performance and the gravity of the needs that we are meeting. We are also facing a growing threat from for profit, unaccredited claim consultants known in the veteran community as claim sharks.

These individuals and organizations charge exorbitant fees for services veterans can access for free through accredited county veteran services offices. They often submit incorrectly prepared or harmful claims, delay filings to maximize retroactive payment payouts, and in many cases charge veterans anywhere between 15 and $30,000 to file a claim.

These claim sharks often promise that they have the ability to get claims adjudicated faster than the accredited representatives. But there is no way that they can possibly process claims faster than we can. Since they are not accredited, they do not possess authorized access to the VA Benefits Management System.

Many of their clients face proposed reductions in severance once their claims are not adjudicated properly and they're just dropped. Many have also been exposed for clear violations in state and federal law. They prey on the most vulnerable and elderly disabled veterans and it's time that California leads the way in protecting its veterans from their predators. Something I have here, if anybody, I really quickly I was able to pull up 12 known cases of clear violations by these claim sharks, and I have them pulled up here. So later if we want to get into specifics, I do have information there.

So in closing, despite the urgency of this need and the increasing workload we've taken on, our state subvention funding has not kept pace. In fact, we've increased. I'm sorry, I went backwards. As you consider the future of California's county veterans services offices, I urge you to support an increase in local assistance of venture funding.

This investment would ensure equitable service delivery across counties and allow to sustain and expand the services that are already saving lives. In closing, I want to again express our gratitude. We are thankful to CalVet, this Legislature, and the Governor for recognizing the role CVSOs play. It's not just connecting veterans to their earned benefits, but in building the foundation of care, stability, and dignity that they deserve. Thank you for your time and your continued support to California's veterans.

Thank you. And again, we'll come back with some questions and when we do, we'll open it up with the Vice Chair and then we'll move it along and then I'll come back. All right, so right now we have, I understand, Katherine Kuzminski, Director of Studies, Center for a New American Security. And I think she is going to come to us live Zoom from Washington, D.C. I understand.

That's correct. So, State Senator Archuleta, Assembly Member Schiavo, and the Senate Military and Veteran Affairs Committee, thank you for having me today. I serve here as the Director of Studies at the Center for New American Security, which is a nonprofit, bipartisan national security think tank here in Washington, D.C., where I have led the Center's research on military personnel, veterans and military families, all of which we view as critical elements of national security.

In this capacity, I have led seven veteran needs assessments across different states and regions across the country, including a needs assessment of veterans in the western United States, with deep dives on trends in San Francisco, Los Angeles, and San Diego.

In 2021, I also led an assessment of the impact that County Veterans Service Officers have on their local communities. I am additionally a proud spouse of an active duty army officer, and I thank you all for allowing me to join this virtually from across the country.

Looking at California, as of 2022, approximately 1.2 million veterans exist in California, 4.3% of the California population. Compared to the national average, veterans comprise 7% of the population. But it's worth noting that the large population of California gives you a big denominator there.

It's worth noting that the veteran populations in San Diego County and LA County, 74,000 and 69,000 respectively, are larger than the veteran populations of most states, including Maine, Kansas, Mississippi, and West Virginia. There has been a 30% decrease in the California veteran population since 2012, which was noted earlier. There's a couple of reasons for that.

Some reasons may have to do with individuals relocating to other states, but it also reflects a broader demographic shift resulting from the transition from a much larger and older draft era military from World War II, Korea, and Vietnam eras to the generations of the all volunteer force in 1973.

This has resulted in five decades of a much smaller military, which means that we should see a much smaller number of new veterans entering the system. The dynamics between older veterans and younger veterans set the stage for some of the challenges and opportunities that face the veteran population and therefore the County Veterans Service Officers who serve them.

Older veterans tend to be more in need of access to medical care, while younger veterans, also needing access to medical care, also need assistance in attaining educational benefits, employment opportunities, and other parts of the claim process.

The younger veteran population is also a much more diverse population with increasing populations of female veterans and an evolving demographic profile of race and ethnicity, which may all contribute to different needs. County Veteran Service Officers must be able to deliver on the needs of both the older population and the younger population simultaneously.

As of 2021, 29 out of 50 states have a formal structure for County Veteran Service Officers. California is among the lead there. And 24% of the nation's counties support a County Veteran Service Officer. As you all know, County Veterans Service Officers serve as VA accredited Veterans Service Officers providing a variety of services to the veterans living within their jurisdictions. And as one of the five states with the largest absolute veteran population, California is in the lead.

At the national level, between 2014 and 2020, the number of claims filed by CVSOs grew from approximately 1600 to approximately 4500. At the same time, while the number of claims was growing, CVSOs further demonstrated a significant increase in the percentage of claims that were granted, from 67.2% in 2014 to 82.4% in 2020.

It's also worth comparing how CVSO and local claims assistance success rates compare to other forms of assistance. Year over year, those who received assistance from CVSOs outperformed those receiving no assistance, which we expect to see, but also outperform those who received assistance from national level organizations, which we might not expect to see.

The only category of assistance that outperformed local or CVSO support were law firms engaged in pro bono claims assistance. These data points taken together indicate that the CVSOs are a worthy investment delivering for our veterans. In 2021, my team conducted a survey of CVSOs to determine where challenges may exist. One of the challenges is counterintuitive.

Because CVSOs are dedicated to their roles and to the veterans that they serve, individuals serving in that role may not always report when they're not receiving the amount of assistance they need, whether in terms of resources or personnel. The gaps don't tend to show in the data because CVSOs don't fail at their mission.

And there were clear indications that the increase in administrative support would allow CVSOs themselves to focus on the tasks that only they can perform, investing in relationships, providing a warm handoff for complex systems, and processing a complex range of paperwork.

Additional support to CVSOs would also support another challenge that we see among the community, which is a high level of burnout because of the level of care provided. CVSOs also have their finger on the pulse of their communities in a way that might be missed when we look at veterans at the national level.

They're aware of trends and changes on the ground and they're more likely to know our veterans by name. We also found that CVSOs were most effective when they partnered with other veterans serving nonprofits. They report high levels of engagement with their local communities, 86% of CVSOs reporting that they regularly engage with other community services and veterans serving nonprofits at least daily, weekly, or monthly. At the state level, one of the challenges that CVSOs face in other states is a lack of clear state level guidance and organization.

However, the California Association of CVSOs provides a framework that does not exist at other state levels. Professionalization and standardization provided by the state architecture allows for the effective delivery of care to our veterans and their families.

Lastly, as we are in a moment of transition at the national policy level, we see an evolution of the VA's approach to care, the size of the VA workforce. It will remain ever more important that those who are aiding our veterans in navigating complex systems have a partner, a local partner in the process. Thank you for your time today.

Thank you so very much for your input, your testimony. And I can see it's nice and dry over there, but we had some rain here in Sacramento, so. Well, thank you for your testimony. So now what I'd like to do is turn it over to our Vice Chair who will take the floor with some questions and then we'll open it up to the other Assembly Member and to the Senator.

Thank you so much. Really helpful to hear your testimony today. As Mr. Zenner knows, I'm a huge fan of CVSOs and fight for them to have more time in my district because of that. And he's been incredibly helpful, which I very much appreciate, because we have a huge, huge population, veteran population in Santa Clarita Valley and throughout my district.

So it's, we've seen the difference it makes for folks when they're able to really access that time and be able to get better access to the services and services that they rely on and really, truly need. I know, Mr. Boyd, you talked about some cases that you could expand on a little bit and so would love to hear a little bit more about some examples that you found on the claim sharks.

So I don't have the dates of every single one, but I can certainly get references to the case studies. I do have the hyperlinks on the back of one of these pages. So, for instance, in 2022, there was a CFPB and VA joint warning highlighting the growing concerns about unaccredited actors requesting VA.gov credentials misrepresenting service.

Almost every single veteran that we engage with has had this practice imposed upon them where they are asked for their login information for the VA and for their banking login information. Because that's the only way that these claim sharks have any potential to track the claim is if they can get access to that veteran system because they don't have Veteran Benefit Management access.

So there's several, you know, there are several violations there. And especially if we talk about enhanced protections for our, many of these are seniors and obviously disabled. So this is something that I'm actually meeting with a special prosecutor in our county, our DA. He is acting colonel in our National Guard.

He's, I believe, our head JAG for the National Guard. And I had a long conversation with him on Saturday and he is, he really wants to find out more about exactly what's been happening because we see it all the time. And I mean, I could keep going. So, Senator.

No names please.

Oh, of the veterans? Oh, absolutely not, Senator. Absolutely. No, this is. These are just general like the Texas Tribune investigation reported the VA claims insider upfront fees for potential illegal practices, including contracts that extended, extracted $15,000 from veterans.

Senator, there's a Senator Shaheen and colleagues letter to the FTC in 2023 called for a formal investigation into claims consultants and their deceptive practice. NBC Boston lawsuit coverage covered veterans lawsuit against a national consulting firm alleging unlawful charges and deceptive contracts. That was on NBC Boston.

The VA Office of Inspector General reports have flagged many of these businesses for potential fraud, improper access, and the need for greater enforcement against unauthorized access. It's kind of gridded out here. I mean, these were just 12, very briefly in my time that I was able to find. There's another half a dozen or over a dozen alleged allegations. And next time we come back, we'll bring more receipts because I'll find veterans in my community that have been subjected to this kind of treatment.

And I'd love to have them engage with you all to hear from their mouths directly because we can tell you, but we're not the ones that are getting sometimes up to $30,000. I mean, that's a down payment on a house for many of these veterans and it's just being robbed from them when we do it for free.

Thank you. Thank you for that. I mean, that's incredibly concerning. And you know, especially gaining access to people's bank accounts, that is shocking.

It's the standardized practice. I urge any of you to call and pretend to be, if you ever do it once, be stolen valor and pretend to be a veteran and call one of these claim sharks and see how, and see the things that they ask for and it will shock you. Everything's scripted and it's. And they're great sales and women and they have a lot of money and they have a lot of support. So they then have a lot of power to move through this arena. But these are our brothers and sisters. We're just going to fight as much as we can.

Money made on the backs of disabled veterans.

It's sickening.

Yeah. Well, and I want to, you know, mention obviously our Co-Chair has or Vice Chair has a bill on this that sailed through Committee and happy to support that and think it's a really important issue that we continue. And I think you also have a bill. So many bills, trying to do all the things.

So, you know, this is certainly a top priority for me and for our Committee this year and really want to see some progress in this area this year when we were unfortunately unable to do that last year. I wanted to, you know, also go back. I heard you.

I did not realize that you have the highest number of veteran suicides in your community, in your county. And know you talked about the access to telehealth. Is that something that you, is that going to, like how much of the need do you think that really addresses?

And, and a second question for Mr. Zenner, which I know you mentioned the kind of going back and seeing what the causes were and if there are any lessons learned on figuring out how we could prevent more suicides. I wonder if there's lessons learned that you could share today too.

So Mr. Herrera was the one that shared the data with me because finding this data is extremely difficult for down to get down in our county level. I mean I've even engaged with our coroner and tried to get access to the data and it's been quite challenging. We are, we have almost no in person therapeutic support.

Our vet center is down to one therapist just because of a confluence of events and of course there's a hiring, you know, they can't hire on new people right now. So and then the VA, you know, we have a very small community based outpatient clinic. We do have one on site schedule.

We're partnering with the VA to actually utilize an old county public health building to utilize space up in the north part of our county and there'll be counselors there. So this team, this Transitions Mental Health grant and funding is going to co-locate at the vet at the VA clinics.

So it's all about making sure that our veterans don't have to travel all over our county to access care. So we're going to make sure that there's co-sharing space so that the veteran, we can, we can engage the veteran, all the veterans needs in one location if we can.

But it goes to show some, you know, how that money goes a long way to make a difference.

A very long way.

Yeah, yeah. Mr. Zenner.

So we have only reviewed 10 decedents so far, so the number is really low. I think the primary thing that stood out is, is untreated pain management, pain issues has been a trend that's kind of stuck out. But we're getting ready to publish a report, which we could easily make it available for your Committee, both committees.

Thank you. And I'll just close by saying, you know, clearly the numbers that were shared today around the dollar of investment and when you get 80 or more dollars back and benefits. You know, we know that these dollars invested in the work that CVSOs do to support our veteran community really make a big difference and our dollar is well spent. So I'm glad we're highlighting it today and continue to push for even more funding. Thank you.

And please, our Assembly Member Gonzalez.

Thank you. I appreciate your testimony. I know we've been in conversation, I feel like since the beginning of the year of trying to solve this issue. You know, I would say it's complex because of its, of the nuances of how they get in and claim sharks get in and find that. And that's something, you know, however this bill ends, we still have to continue to keep on going back to it to shore up the gaps because there will be gaps. It just, it's natural.

So number one is, I encourage you to continue. Let's continue to keep having the conversation. Right? We, I can tell you from our perspective just in talking to everyone here, we are 100% in support of our men and women who've served our nation and protecting them because they protect us. That's the first thing.

The second thing is making sure that we look at every piece of this in such a way that if we only hit the 80%, okay, what do we do the following year to shore up the other 20% and keep on going and keep on going. Because I've just seen this happen so often that we just didn't think of something. They find new ways to do that. I've seen it in my own career in the military is you plug the hole in one side and then it just pops out on another side. So it's important.

I know it's important to us that we make sure we are supportive of you. The other piece is, I see it just in my community. My VSO out there. I say my VSO, right? Because we feel like they're our VSO because we know them. They're at every single event, doing every single thing.

They are the janitor, the party planner, and everything else in between. And for the amount of work that they do, there's just not enough. There's just not enough resources to give them. We need to make sure that we are taking care of them because those numbers are staggering. Right.

And the fact that here in California, you handle a lot of the national stuff, national claims, because you're just poised to be able to do that, and you do it in such a regular basis. And I also get the burnout piece. I understand the passion piece of that, of, you know, we got to take care of them.

And if not us, then who? If not now, then when? And you just got to make it happen. And in that, I believe it's up to us to support you in making that happen. Right. And finding ways to give you more resources so we can answer the need of the men and women who serve our nation fearlessly and courageously. So I'm thankful for your time.

I do want to encourage you, like all the other different pieces, the links that you were talking about, the cases, I want to see more of those and understand that because that'll help us craft even more as we keep on looking at that. Right. That's the important piece to us. And then obviously, making sure you have the resources. So thank you.

Very good. Okay, I'm going to go hit each one of you with a round of questions, if I may. Oh, I'm sorry, I keep looking to my left.

I'm going to move down. No, just playing. No, this morning. Thank you all for your service. And I represent San Diego. So we obviously, you know, we have a large military community population and me being a part of this hearing was imperative for me because I flew up early this morning to make sure that I was here to hear this panel as this is a deep conversation that's happening amongst so many veterans in regards to being able to receive services from their VSOs.

And I know that some people, I am familiar with some folks who have gone outside to use other services because of the lack of capacity. So I appreciate being here to hear this even more in depth in regards to those bad actors because we know that there are bad actors that currently exist.

But I also want us just to be mindful, as some people was telling me, that, hey, we still have to have options. And from what I'm hearing, the options is to ensure that we get you enough resources, get you enough to be able to be able to fill in those actual gaps that are currently needed.

So that way we won't have these bad actors and we can eliminate the bad actors. So I hear that even more now, being here this morning, loud and clear. One of the questions that I had was in regards to the context of our growing, the way we are trying to privatize so much across many sectors.

How can the state preserve a veteran centered and equity driven model of care while still welcoming the innovation from folks that are on the outside? I'm just wondering, is there anything that we can continue to do to even look at some things that are taking place and maybe adopt some additional work? You guys are doing great work. I'm hearing it, I see it. But I'm just wondering if there's anything out there that we are missing that is working, but we just don't have enough capacity to help fill in those gaps.

I think in LA we have a public private partnership with Southern California Grantmakers. There's about 15 veteran funding foundations that are part of that group, and they're really our partner, our third party administrator for the Veteran Peer Access Network.

And so how we envision that is really, as the peers are seeing the need on the ground, it takes a little while to get government to fund things, right? But philanthropy, they're a little bit quicker. So they're seeing the need that our 45 veterans that are on the ground working with men and women who served in their families are seeing and they bring it back to that group. And we get things funded shortly through the philanthropic sector.

And then we make a budget request as a county later on that year to keep that investment going. So that's just one way we've kind of taken a look at going outside of just county dollars and state and federal dollars to really kind of have the most impact.

It's not so much what we're missing, it's how we can enhance what we already have if there was to be. So I'm the Nevada County Veterans Services Officer along with being President of our state association, and we receive Prop 63 funding for mental health, we're allowed to give 30--

We provide 30 veterans a year, 10 free-- confidential and free mental health services. It takes them about three and a half to five months to be seen 15 minutes down the road by the VA Auburn Outpatient Clinic. Some of them aren't eligible for the vet center that comes in biweekly.

We see them at three and a half to four weeks. We've been able to treat them, see them, take care of them, help them get service connected. But it stops after 10, right. And we're only limited to 30.

If we were able to have more access to fill that out, spread that out, serve more veterans, we have greater impact because when we connect them, we're just not focusing on the services side. Meaning we're going to get you compensation, right?

Cool, we got you your 70% for PTSD, but are you still dealing with drug and alcohol problems? Do you still have anger management issues? Do you still have a job? Have you been training? Have you been doing these things? Are you accessing your healthcare? We are the ones helping them get that.

We're just not focused on making sure you get your money so that we can take your money and send you on your way. Are you a business owner? Have you been trying to get a business? Let's connect you to those services. So it's more of, not where-- it's just an expansion. Opportunities to get into CalAIM, right.

There's an opportunity there to provide more wraparound services, more of that social work that we already do, right. And allow us to tap in more funds to our office, another stream of money. But right now we're under, you know, we don't have the resources and we can't build that, but we can prove it once we get the opportunity.

Forgot the button. In response to the Assembly member's question, in terms of choice, we have the State and Vice State Commander for the VFW back here, their veteran services officers, and same with our American legions, they step in and fill those gaps where we can't. And we very much value our partnership with those organizations.

We could not do our jobs as effective in our roles without that collaboration because we're county and these VFWs are down at their cities. So they know they know everything about what's going on in that local community.

And yes, we might be close at the county level, but being down in that city where they live and working with them, it really helps bridge a lot of gaps and really gets us access.

So I would say, you know, enhancing collaboration with our partners that are already doing it right, instead of trying to foster in a system that is going to continue to allow veterans to be taken advantage of while I'm in my role, I will never change. This is just unacceptable to me. Thank you.

Thank you so much for sharing that information, all of you. I really do appreciate that. And I'll be sure to share this with my former spouse who was also an army vet. So, and I'm asking this too, because he's still going through a process of trying to receive his benefits.

And so this provides clarity even more for me and make sure that I can share more information back with him as well.

805-781-5766 is the number to our office.

Okay, I get you there.

We help a lot of people from San Diego. Yeah.

And if I could just add real quick, Assembly member, I think another opportunity in LA, we have Bob Hope Patriotic Hall. It's a county War Memorial building. I operate it as a CBSO and Director. It's 10 stories. You can't recreate it. But however, a lot of my counterparts in other counties don't have their own building.

They're in a DPSS office or another building. And that's just a huge opportunity. What we've been able to do in LA County is we created a county sanctioned foundation to operate the building, rent it out, generate revenue off of it, as well as accept donations.

There's a lot of people that come to me as a county like, hey, I want to do something for military and veterans. It is a big bureaucratic mess to accept donations. And so now we have that foundation that can do that.

So that's another way I think the state could really innovate with counties to create more revenue and more opportunities and really create a veteran centric one stop shop.

Thank you.

Okay, Senator McNerney, if you'd like to jump in and ask some questions of our group of representatives, I would like. To go right ahead.

Chairman and Chairwoman, thank the, thank you for testifying this morning. You all and the VSOs in the communities are the front line. You know, in terms of hearing stories and trying to help people that need help. And you know, when you leave the service, you want to go away from this. You want to...

And so bringing those people back in is really tough. I think that's probably the most difficult thing is convincing them to come back and start accepting the services that are available. Because there are. They're really good services. So I have a couple of questions. Some interesting testimony that I heard this morning.

First of all, that you are the county VSOs are most effective when they're collaborating with other organizations that serve veterans. Could you go into that a little bit or maybe Kathryn could do that. How that works, how do you collaborate with other veterans organizations? I feel like I'm jumping in right away.

Sorry. We're doing a lot down in La. So the VA reached out to us a couple years ago and said the secretary wants to make this ground zero for innovation for ending veteran homelessness. And they asked me to co chair a process called One Team.

One Team is designed to tear down the barriers of silos and really generate a culture of it doesn't matter what organization you're with, we're all here for the same mission.

I've shared with my other two co chairs who didn't serve in the military that it reminds me of being in the military where it doesn't matter what unit patch you got on your shoulder, the bullets start flying, you start running at it. So that, that's really kind of made a huge difference.

As a result, I shared earlier 42.5% more placements in a permanent housing over the last two years and then 22.9% reduction in homelessness last year. And so, you know, that really that's, you know, we just show up. To be honest with you, we don't point the finger and say, hey VA, this is your role.

Hey state, this is your role. We get on board and whatever the team needs from us, we make it happen within the county.

So oftentimes, if there's resources that the VA can't fill, I'll reach out to our Department of Public Health, SAPC and get some substance use treatment for family Members and for veterans that aren't eligible as an example.

So I just show up and whatever the group needs, whatever veterans and their families need, I just make those connections within the county.

So forming that organization seems to be a key to that positive and productive collaboration. Yes. So yeah, maybe we could, maybe you could share that with us so we can help promote that around the state. I appreciate that. Another question is the...

When we talk about investing in county VSOs and other VSOs, it would be nice to have a quantitative way to say, you know, if we invest so many $1.0 million in our county VSOs, we're going to get a return on investment in terms of claims and disability claims and ways that these...

That this additional investment in VSOs is paying back the state so that it makes our job of asking the Governor for money more easier, easier. So I don't know if you have a way to address that or not.

That's a great question, Senator. And I believe that there absolutely is a quantitative way. And that's just. I believe the average across the state, And I believe Mr. Herrera could probably speak to it a little bit later.

But since the passage of the PACT act, the average across the state is like a 30, 35% increase, or maybe that's since the last subvention increase where we went from just over 5 to 11 million. And we've seen a 35% increase just since that time. I mean, we're...

We're looking at ways to reduce times in counties when they get a little underwater, looking at ways to make sure that the service delivery is equitable across every county, because every county's different.

Those of us that are Department heads are have much more autonomy to operate our offices than, let's say, if they were program manager couched lower in a health and human services or something like that.

So we are the veteran voice of our community, and we're really proud of that and getting that message out there, even with the lack of. We have no funding for marketing, so it's. It's really just word of mouth. Yeah, but in our county, we have the best of San Luis Obispo. It's a local paper award.

We've received that award four out of the last five years. Best veterans service organization in our county. And it's just from word of mouth, and we're very proud of that fact. But obviously, we're a much smaller county and have to work within our own limitations and constraints, but we're relentless because our brothers and sisters need that help.

Well, I'd like to be able to go to the Governor and say, Governor, we need 25% more budget, and this is a tough budget here. So he's going to say, yeah, why would I, you know. But I say, hey, if we invest, you know, another $50 million, we're going to get $200 million federal money in claims.

I mean, that would be enough right there. This is a return on investment directly.

We can certainly prepare something like that for you, Senator. And, and that's out there already. We can pull it together because we have seen sharp increases in claims activities in this state since we were fortunate enough to receive the last allocation. So it proves that when we get the money, we do something with it.

And additional money is just going to continue to help more and allow us to get out of the communities and really impact those communities that are. I grew up on a little rural farm out in the middle of nowhere.

I know 20 minutes from the beach sounds weird, but that's kind of how we are on the central coast. So we believe in meeting our veterans where they're at. So getting out into our communities, that's what that additional funding will really help, really get those veterans that are stuck in those more rural communities.

So one other question. Claim sharks. You guys are bad mouthing these claim sharks. How can we reduce their activity? How can we, you know, shut these folks down? Yeah.

Well, first off, I want to say thank you, Katherine, for your testimony earlier and helping fill in some gaps. So as she was talking earlier, right, she was getting a lot of national numbers talking about the states and the, you know, 29 of the only so many states have VSOs and have this network in place. Right.

So in addition to serving as the California President of our state Association, I also serve on the E board of our, of our national Association of County Veterans Services Officers. The rest of the nation looks at California for how we provide services. We're unique in our funding systems.

We're unique in the fact that we all use the same software to file claims which allows Calvet to pull data for us all to access and tell you what's happening. Right. The fact of the matter is the Midwest, there's some states that don't have this network. Right.

So I'm not going to lie to you, maybe these unaccredited, they might be needed in these states, right. Because there is gaps in services. It's not the case here in California we're doing the work. The problem is that we've been underfunded.

We've been promised 50% of our operating budget and every year we come up here and ask, can we get a little more? Can we get a little more? And we're going to show you the stats to show you the great work that we do from the last time we got an increase.

If we can do more work and if you're in California, we can say no, you can't operate here. We're going to be able to do our job and we're able to make sure that every veteran here in California is thriving.

Because the thing that bothers me is about These companies, the predatory companies, our country's been at war for 20 years, right? And right now you hear all the time on the news about veterans are homelessness and veterans are killing themselves at higher rates. And that's true, we do do that.

But 90% of us are doing pretty well in our lives. You know, we sit up here as Assembly Members and Senators, right? We're moms, we're homes back home, we're doing great things.

Yet these companies want to throw this thing out there that we all are entitled to this 100% compensation and that you have to pay to get it. And that's just not true. We as county veteran service officers will look at our veteran across in the face and be like, we don't really think you're entitled to that.

We're going to help you.

We're not going to send you to our Doctor that you're going to pay $650 to get the medical opinion that you want to be able to file a fraudulent claim with the VA that is actually going to hurt five to 10 years down the road when they're looking at a pay for tax breaks, who are they going to come after?

They're going to come at veterans and they're going to say, wow, a lot of you guys are 100% service connected or is all of that on the up and up and we're actually going to be hurting California's veterans in the long run, right? As Assembly member Gonzalez was saying here we do one thing, we see another problem, right?

Allowing them to operate is just going to further impact us down the road. So part of the problem is we don't want them to operate because they're taking advantage and further along they're going to hurt the system down the road. Right? So that's what we're asking for. I hope I answer your question, Senator.

Okay.

All right, I'll yield back. Thank you. So now let me go ahead and, and try and get to each one of you with one of my questions.

You know, we've heard the fact that if we had more money and in our books that we have here that Senator and Assembly Members, you will get, you'll get, give you an idea and let me bring it a little closer to home.

So if we had 300 veterans serviced within your county and your county just on that one day, just that one day, 300 veterans.

And because of your input, because of your involvement, as I said earlier, because you drag it out of them and they finally just pour their hearts out to you and you're able to document everything, get them into the system, ptsd, other injuries, whatever it might be, service connected.

And when it's all said and done, if they're lucky, and it'll take time, but if they can get this rating up to about 100%, thereabout, that's about almost $4,000, you multiply that by those 300 you just saw, well, that transcends into billions of dollars at the end of a year.

And that's what this is, what we're trying to understand, our 11 million, which I understand you're looking for 14 million.

Imagine the number of people we can serve, which again transcends into the billions because of the money that they're going to spend in San Luis Obispo, in San Diego and Los Angeles, up and down the state, because they're going to be here. And that's the point. The money is coming back into California, staying in California.

And that's, I believe, what's so vital and so important. We try to do that. And I know the budget ask is I believe, 14 million. And over the years that I've been working as the chair, we've been increasing that number, if you recall. But the dividends, the investment is paying back time and time again.

But is it enough? Of course not. Because there are still veterans out there that need the rating. And what we just heard from you, Jim and Dave and everyone else, that veterans who need help aren't just looking for the dollar, but they're looking for service. And I believe that's what we do as.

And I say we, all of us, the veteran service officers, because you find a veteran who has a General discharge, dishonorable discharge, and he comes in and doesn't realize that he is not eligible, but you don't turn him away. LA County, your counties, you don't turn them away. Why?

They have served this country, maybe not honorably, maybe they've got that General discharge, but what I'm getting is you turn them over to the civilian side of it all, and whether it be social services, mental health issues, whatever it would be for their families.

But on the other side, those who are eligible with the honorable discharge, now, they fall into a different category.

So, Dave, I'm going to ask you, when we're talking about the County of Los Angeles with 10 million people versus your county and the amount of money that's funneled to you, are you finding that these small counties, medium counties, are just not getting what they need?

They should get what you need to reach that level of Service and care that maybe LA County is able to provide. Complicated question, right? The needs are different. The needs are the same. But the allocation of funding, it might be different. And I need you to comment on that.

No, we. So we all get allocated. We all get allocated. It's not the way. The issue isn't how the money's allocated. Right. Because we all get a certain amount. The formula is the same for operating costs and how we do. The fact of the matter is though, Jim's staff is a lot bigger than my staff.

So his 10% of extra work is a lot more than 10% of Nevada County. So when Jim performs 10% more work with his 50 VSR's or whatever he's blessed to have in LA, he. He's throwing a lot more money, a lot more into the formula than I am.

So even though I do 10% more work because Jim's got more staff and he's doing great work, in essence, I could actually be getting less money because the 10% work I'm doing is being completely overshadowed by the work that Jim's doing. Right. And when we're doing our work, we don't take into funding, right?

No, you do your job, help everybody this year. Because at the end of the year when you look, you're like, man, we did 150 more claims, but we got 5,000 less dollars. Right. And it's just because that's the way the formula is. There's only 11 million there. And I.

And it sounds weird saying only 11, that's a lot of dollars. Right. But when you throw more workloads, we're adding more people onto our staff. It devalues the value of that workload.

That is the point I'm making is the ask of 14 will make a difference. Yes. That's why it's so important. Yes. And I've got that.

And we've got plans too. So we're not just coming here asking. Like, we got ideas of maybe, maybe putting money depending on like $3 per veteran in your county. So that way Jim's got his money because that's where all the veterans live in San Diego.

Like, we're going to be looking at the model and make sure the money's going where it's needed and providing resources throughout the State of California.

Okay, let me go ahead through. And Jim, your relationship you had mentioned with the County of Board of Supervisors, LA County Board of Supervisors, these five top, top women who represent the County of Los Angeles, I believe, have soft heart for our veterans. But we need to help them help you.

What are some of the successes they've given you and allowed you to do to service veterans? If you can give us a short answer on that one, please.

Yeah, there's a lot. Bob Hope Patriotic Hall costs about $1.7 million to keep open and operate and they've been operating that, making sure that that building gets operated almost the last hundred years, which has really given me strong foundation to build out services and build out a base of operations.

Also the decision to move the Veteran Peer Access Network, which was MHSA funded from Department of Mental Health over to my Department has allowed me to really make sure that the agenda of EPAN and the needs that are coming up from the 45 veterans with lived experience out in the communities, what they're seeing, I'm able to prioritize it because there's not much distance between that program and the Director.

Whereas when it's in a bigger program that isn't solely focused on veterans, it doesn't get that attention and care. Also being willing to fund a justice involved division. Before I got appointed, there was no referrals, no unified referral process from probation to VA or MVA. There's a lot of connectivity disconnects within the county.

So by investing and allowing us to hire up and co locate staff with the justice involved departments, that's going to have a huge impact impact as well.

And just, you know, part of it is when as they invest money, that brings the VA to the table and if there's a deficiency, like there wasn't enough connectivity between the Veteran Justice Outreach program and the VA and they heard it very loud and clearly from the public defender, alternate public defender, DA.

They're like we call you and you don't answer. As a result, the VA heard that and they brought on four more Veteran Justice Outreach. So. So it's having an impact on our federal partners by investing.

And the reason I bring up these questions is because I want everyone to know that our county Board of Supervisors, across the state and our local cities, everyone is trying to help our veterans. And I think that the big push we're looking for right now is that $14 million that is so vital and that's important.

Morgan, your question for the day is San Luis Obispo. That is a beautiful county. I just love. We've had conferences there. But the veteran service officers, I know you're working very close with the National Guard.

Are you finding some of these National Guard men who you may have served with and so on when you were in Iraq and Afghanistan. Are they coming out and supporting you and our veterans?

Zero, absolutely. I mean, so San Luis Obispo is home to the state's National Guard Camp, San Luis Obispo. We also have Camp Roberts in Fort Hunter Leggett, just over in Monterey County. We have a very large National Guard presence.

And also the Space Force Base of Vandenberg might be in Santa Barbara county, but many of them decide to reside in our county, which we're more than grateful to, to have them in our community. We work a lot with our National Guard men and women who are getting out or are still active.

You know, some are still in the National Guard and they might have active duty time and they need to get a service connection for something they got. So we take care of them in any level possible, Senator.

And my point there is the fact that even though these National Guard and Reserves are in uniform, they still need help. They still need help from the VA. They still need help from all the county Veterans Service Officers. And it's a team effort.

Very much so, Senator. We say it all the time. Not one of us is more important than the other. It's one team, one fight. If we're looking at putting one organization on a pedestal over another, then we are failing as county Veterans services officers, we have to work together to support the needs of our veteran community.

Thank you.

And Kate, are you there?

I'm here.

Okay. Kate, you've heard what our local representatives here in California are talking about, but you had mentioned some of the research you've done and some of the recommendations you feel are there now because you're in Washington. California is a very unique state because our number of veterans are sized.

We are the fourth largest economy in the world, but we seem to need more for our veterans. How do you think we should implement our plan and do you feel from your viewpoint, would $14 million be enough to accomplish what we're trying to do?

Yeah, I think when you look at the diversity of the state's geography and the types of populations you have from LA County, which itself is unique among cities in the way that you have many city centers and the distribution of need across the broader LA County, and the fact that you counter that with the services that are needed for more rural veterans or veterans who don't have as equal access to care as their urban counterparts might have in San Francisco, in LA or in San Diego, you also see a different distribution of the veteran population down at the county level.

So we might see a very large concentration of veterans in San Diego, county, primarily because of the Marine Corps and Navy footprint that exists there, but also because it's a good place to retire. And we also have to consider the shifts in population.

So the fact that the Vietnam era veteran population and cohort is entering their 70s, that they're a large population, and that many of them are just now on the other side of retirement and are seeking out services for the first time in ways that they might not have sought those services out in the past, I think is useful context for thinking about increasing the budget.

And then from a public Administration case study standpoint, I think that the value that is invested in CVSO's is truly remarkable in that we see, you know, when we see the explosion of demand for a certain service in other sectors or other parts of access to government resources, if we were to see a tripling of cases or a tenfold increase in cases, we would expect to see that at best the...

The delivery of services would remain the same, and we might expect to actually see a dip instead. With CVSOs, what we see is that the more cases they have, the better they're getting at, the higher success rates they're having when it comes to securing claims for their constituents, for the veterans that they serve.

And while I can't speak specifically to some of the questions that you asked the local folks on the ground there about what their ROI is, specifically, we do see a trend that an investment in a CVSO leads to a much larger increase in the effectiveness of delivery of care that results in higher dollars for the state.

But perhaps more importantly, it also corresponds with the fact that we're improving the lives of veterans on the ground where they live.

Thank you, Kate. And I'm going to, rather than me close. Dave, as the President, I want you to comment as an example. My own brother served in Vietnam and in the Vietnam era, as I did in that same time frame. I served with the 82nd Airborne, you all know, and he received back pay, $65,000.

Had he been working with these scoundrels, and I will say that for the record, would he have gotten that $65,000 in your opinion?

No, it's very easy. No, he would not have received that 65,000. He probably wouldn't. He probably would write off the top, I would say about a third, third to a quarter of that money would be taken.

And I'm assuming your brother at the time was in need of every dollar that needed to come help get up on debt relief, maybe some stuff around the house to help with his physical conditions or, I don't know, what time? I don't know when your brother got service connected, but maybe just take the grandkids out. Right?

Be able to have more fun with his grandkids. Provide an opportunity for death benefits for his wife. Right. Because the longer a veteran waits, the harder it is to take care of the the veteran's family after they pass. Not only would he lose out on money, he would have lost out on connectivity to other services.

Was he entitled to the property tax exemption that we're trying with your work, trying to get increased. Right. The veteran is more than the monetary value behind their claim. Veterans, you know, as we sit up here, I've sat up here and told you I'm President of our Association. I'm, you know, Nevada County Veterans Services officer.

I'm also involved nationally. We do it all. The three of us were just back in D.C. a month ago to deal with this one issue, one issue where they're dealing with 5. The most glaring being we needed the VA to fix their processes. Right. Because fixing the processes is ultimately the best thing for the veterans.

Our competition in this game is not focused on improving the process because the broken process could take them, could allow them to take more from more veterans like your brother.

I wanted you to point that out, but the bottom line is accreditation. The bottom line is being authorized to get on that phone one on one with the VA system itself and professionalism. And I think that's what was it.

So with that, I want to thank all our panelists and I'm going to turn it over to my Vice Chair, who will take up the gavel and handle the second panel. So once again, each and every one, thank you for your service.

And we acknowledge our Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, Guard, Merchant Marines, and our Space Force. Okay. To all of you, thank you so very much.

Thank you so much. Thank you. So we'd love to bring our second panel up where we are going to talk about accreditation, more data and connections between CalVet and the CVSO's.

So Robert Herrera from Calvet, Deputy Secretary of Veterans Services, and Richard or Steve Johnson, CSO from Placer county, and Deborah Johnson, who's the President and CEO of California Veterans Assistance Foundation. Welcome. Thank you so much for being with us.

We are running a little behind, so concise comments are welcome and appreciated, but very happy to hear what you all have to say today. And Mr. Herrera, if you want to go, go first.

Absolutely. Might have to redline some of this out then, but yeah. So. Still. Morning. Good morning. Chair Schiavo, Chair Archuleta, Members of the Committee. My name is Roberto Herrera. I'm the Deputy Secretary of Veterans Services Advocate, California Department of Veteran Affairs.

Thank you for taking your time to allow me to share a little bit about the relationship between CalVet and the CVSOs and how we work together to serve California's 1.4 million veterans through many avenues.

First, just a little bit about the Department at CalVet, we operate three state cemeteries in Igo, Yountville and Seaside along with three district offices co located within VA regional offices in Oakland, Louisiana and San Diego.

We provide multiple levels of care throughout eight veterans homes from low level domiciliary care all the way to skilled nursing and memory care. We operate a home loan program being one of California's largest lenders where loans are originated underwritten service throughout the life of the loan.

At Calvet, we work closely with our partners at BCSH and HHS to implement many of the significant investments our state has made to combat veteran homelessness and improve behavioral health outcomes for veterans and their families.

We also actively engage communities throughout the state through several outreach programs focused on reaching veterans and their families throughout their life course from when they're preparing to separate from service to when they're memorialized as one of our state cemeteries, Calvin is able to reach and connect with these veterans at all of their moments that matter.

At Calvin, we understand that one organization cannot be all things to all veterans and we work diligently to develop and maintain veterans specific community based systems of care throughout the state to address the many needs veterans may present.

Our community partners play a significant role in not only the triage and rendering of services, but they act as a conduit to CalVet to identify any emerging and emergent, localized or systemic needs that may arise. At the center of this community based system of care is the County Veterans Service Officer working hand in hand with CalVet.

CVSOs provide access to critical benefits and services and are oftentimes, as we heard this morning, the front line of providing access to health care, disability compensation and further connection to services in the community. Military and Veterans Code allows California's counties to appoint and establish a County Veterans Service Officer.

Currently in California there are 55 established CVSOs with Yuba and Sutter sharing one office and I believe it's Alpine that's out to make it the addition there 58.

CVSOs are also further required to establish and maintain accreditation with Calvet, which provides them the authority to prepare, present and prosecute claims on behalf of veterans and their survivors to the VA. Under Calvet's power of attorney as nobody may assist claimants for this reason until they are first accredited by VA.

To become accredited, only states, tribal entities or Congressionally recognized Veterans Service organizations- These are your VFWs, American Legion Davs, et cetera- are able to provide accreditation to individuals to represent Columbus before the VA outside of VSOs, states and tribal entities. The VA does allow for the accreditation of individual claims agents and attorneys,

So long as they apply to the VA for accreditation, they must prove they're of good moral character. Claim agents have to pass a written exam administered by VA with a score of 75.

They can't take it more than twice in a six month period, and agents and attorneys must also maintain continuing education requirements as a requirement of their accreditation. Now at CalVet, in order to become accredited CVSO's and their Veterans Service representatives, their staff, must complete the Calvet Veteran Service Representative Academy. This training is broken down into three parts.

First, candidates attend a week long Phase one in which they're taught the nuts and bolts of VA policy and all the forms that come with it, the General Claims process, military culture, et cetera.

After the completion of Phase one, the OJT components begin where candidates are required to log three months of supervised OJT before they are able to attend Phase two, in which they do learn more about state benefits, our case management system and interviewing techniques.

At the end of Phase two, candidates are then eligible to sit for a VA OGC approved examination administered by Calvet that is updated yearly to reflect the most current VA policies service trends.

Across the State There are currently 402 representatives accredited by Calvet with attendance numbers at the Academy reaching record attendance for the last two years with last year more than 113 individuals attending with FY24-25 on track to beat this number once again.

This increase in reps also coincides with the increase in General performance with total outreach workload, with totals in outreach workload and awards increasing generally 30% across the board since 2021. I mean it's pretty straightforward.

I mean the more staff that you're able to have, the more access you're able to have, the more veterans you're going to be able to serve.

It's critical to understand that once CVSO's are accredited by CalVet, we continue to work closely with the CA CVSO through three sanctions training conferences per year to ensure adequate continuing education, coordination of services and strategic planning. Further, CalVet District offices play a critical role in the support of CVSO's year round.

So as I mentioned before, we have three district offices, one in Oakland one in LA, one in San Diego. They're co located in the USDVA Varros. Now, the function of these district offices lies in quality control, continued training to CVSO's, as well as representation during the appeals process.

DO's review all claims that come into Calvet or excuse me, all claims that are submitted by CVSO's under CalVet power of attorney. Make sure that all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed, if you will. This increases the quality of the initial claim. And why is that so significant?

California veteran... claims filed under California power of attorney have a lower average days of completion than other VSO's or states. And not to say by any means, this is not a long time, but California POA currently sits around 135 days average days of completion, while most other POAs are around 150.

And we accredit that to how clean our claims are when they get submitted through the training and through the quality work that's, that's attributed to CVSO's.

DO's, also, if that, if that veteran wants to appeal their claim and they wish to do a hearing, it is the district office, the CalVet district office staff, to actually represent that veteran in front of the Board of Veteran Appeals. The past three years we've been averaging 60 hearings a month.

And as far as a favorable decision rate in appeal, so may not be everything the veteran was asking for, but at least if there's an increase on that claim, CalVet's representation accomplishes that twice the national average. Around 45% of the appeals that we represent, the veteran.

And of course the DO's provide ongoing training to CVSO's and their staff to ensure not only cultural competence, but allowing this allows them to stay current with current... stay current with policy changes or procedural changes that the VA may have introduced.

So all these elements incorporate into the vision of CalVet that California's veterans remain the most connected, protected and respected in the nation.

CalVet has a long history of ensuring the protection of veterans benefits, most notably through programs such as C Save, which protects veterans use of the GI Bill in our state, and also providing avenues for pro Bono legal assistance for discharge upgrades, eviction protections, other civil and family law matters.

But as we heard this morning, since COVID really is when it really started to grow legs, increases in unaccredited individuals and organizations charging veterans on the presentation, preparation, prosecution of a claim. I use that term very specifically as that is what's cited in the CFR.

You know, currently federal law prohibits the charging on an initial claim, but it does allow fair and reasonable rates to be charged on Appeals, representation, you know, I can't go on my social media for more than five minutes without being bombarded with false and misleading advertising regarding the capabilities of these actors.

You know, guarantee at 100% in 30 days, you know, I can move your claim through the VA twice as quickly as anyone else, which of course is not possible.

No one, I mean, unless you have a true insider know the secret sauce that to move that claim through the snake of the VA faster, I'd love to see it.

But what, you know, and of course, as we heard reports of, you know, the PHI and PII being requested and used because they have no other visibility onto where that claim may be in that snow, you know, and leaves veterans out on their back payment, future payments, little to no support on appeals or say no support on an appeal.

There's no training standards, you know, and oftentimes the veteran is left with a claim that is going to be now more difficult to move forward and get to the end of the road to where that veteran wants it to be or that veteran is deserving of it to be.

So, you know, there's also no motivation to serve the veteran holistically, you know, it's transactional. That veteran, as we talked about this morning, you know, CVSOs are key in that community based system of care connecting veterans with other benefits that they may be entitled to serving them as a whole.

So, and this is why in all of our programs that we run and the investments that the state have done, you've heard the Prop 63 program mentioned quite a bit. That was through MHSA, soon to be BHSA. But whether that's the MHSA program or Veterans Housing Homeless Prevention Program, California Veteran Health Initiative.

Even now with Homekey Plus, created through the Infrastructure Bond act, we are infusing the role of the CVSO in all of these investments and all of these programs because of the critical role that they play.

And further, you know, given the recent Trans service Member ban being upheld by the Supreme Court to impact an estimated 4,400 service Members and who knows how underreported that number may be. The importance of CVSO's accessibility and connection to that community based system of care is even more critical now than ever.

And the level of need that these veterans may present or other veterans, you know, it's likely to be complex, various, you know, greater needs, medically, VA eligibility, you know, in question, the level of discharge rendered, what's the coding that's going to be attached to that discharge, how is it going to impact GI Bill eligibility, et cetera.

So for all these reasons, CVSOs are critical in assisting the Department to provide, to respond to the ever evolving State of veteran services. To ensure we adapt and stay vigilant, reflect compassion and acceptance of all those who wore our nation's uniform. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Mr. Johnson.

Alright, thank you. Thank you, Chair Archuleta, Chair Schiavo, for the opportunity to speak today and provide this testimony. As a CACVSO member, the VSO for Placer County, and a proud retired Air Force veteran, I present- I represent a public office and community tasked with a solemn duty and that's to advocate for and serve those who serve our nation.

I'm here today to highlight the growing risk posed by for profit claims companies and to reinforce the critical role that CVSOs play in partnership with CalVet. I want to echo my peers and express our appreciation for our CalVet partners, Deputy Secretary Herrera and his dedicated team of professionals.

We work together every day in some capacity to help our veterans navigate the complexities of veterans benefits. Almost weekly our offices engage with veterans who have already entrusted their claims to private companies, often at significant financial cost, only to find themselves still in need of the very services we offer.

Many of these companies advertise aggressive guarantees, conduct rapid intakes and with little explanation and then vanish from our veterans lives. Once a claim is filed, no additional services are provided. There's no follow up, no representation and no advocacy. The veteran is left with merely an invoice for services.

The common talking point of these companies, veterans choice, is the very crack in the foundation these companies use to take advantage of our heroes. I have an example. So late last summer I worked with a 96 year old veteran who was seeking aid and attendance benefits. And for perspective, I'll get a little technical real quick.

So aid and attendance, this is a non service connected benefit. It's not necessarily related to any sort of service disability that was incurred, but it is based solely on income. And so if there's an income restricted veteran, then that's kind of what we're talking about. But they need the assistance of somebody else in their home.

And so with that being said, this was a very ill veteran who did need aid and attendance in the home. And with his medical expenses he fell below the national poverty threshold for income.

The veteran's daughter was trying her best to navigate his earned benefits and they came to a company who through Google search, which is totally fair, appeared to be a legitimate helping agency. And I want to add a little context to that as well.

You know, marketing and advertising, you know, that's a big deal and that's a gap, you know we talk about. What's a gap? Well, you know, we don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars at the county level to invest into marketing and advertising and letting our veterans know that we're there. And a lot of them do.

But we still miss a lot of veterans and a lot of times it is just the education piece and they're left to their own devices, which is the Google right. And we have this digital divide. And so if it's an older veteran who maybe isn't super savvy with the technology that's out there sometimes, this is where they're led.

My budget for advertising in Placer County is $250 a year. So just to throw that out there for marketing, big bucks. So some in the for profit space would contend this was the veteran choosing their service.

But as mentioned, I believe this is nothing more than a veteran and his family being preyed upon by advertising and marketing strategies.

However, after nearly a year and a half, they had no updates, no communication, and most importantly, no advocacy at that point when I was engaged, I swiftly worked with the family to establish advocacy with the VA and within a few days noticed that the VA had actually made a favorable decision on this veteran's pension claim.

Unfortunately, the decision was never finalized and so it just kind of sat there. This is just an error. This is just an administrative mistake that had they had an advocate would have been- would have been taken care of months and months earlier. So I researched and I emailed the-

St. Paul Minnesota Regional Office Pension Management Center and within 24 hours the veteran was awarded awarded their $2,300 a month for aid in attendance with back pay. The word advocate cannot be overstated. Due to our training, resources and relationships, we are sometimes able to move mountains for our veterans.

This is a necessary element that is not provided by these for profit companies. Another example that we saw just this month is a veteran who came into our office after working with another for profit claims company. He had been charged 20% of his first 10 monthly VA payments, which they weren't really successful at filing his claims.

So fortunately it was only $1,900. Because 60% of his claims were denied. He did not fully understand what exactly he had agreed to or the possibility of future charges for related secondary claim contentions.

Meaning he doesn't know if there's going to be secondary charges, if any seco- if any claims related to those first claims that were approved or denied are ever granted in the future. So he doesn't really understand the contractual agreement that he made.

He was led to believe that personal statements he had written were- were Nexus letters because he was given incorrect information and once again, not a lot of guidance.

He thought he'd signed up for advocacy, but what- but what he had signed up for was calls and emails that wouldn't be answered, which is how we ended up with the veteran in our office.

And of course as his accredited representative, we're on the job now, understanding, providing him follow up, understanding his situation and hopefully supporting him with any appeals. And then, just recently, and just one more example and I'll make this one quick, but just recently I heard of a veteran family. We went out to a senior home in our community.

We did a little miniature claims clinic for some of our vets that maybe can't get out as well. It was- It was great. And we found out that somebody in our community locally charged them $100 to file a form 1010 EZ. A 1010 EZ is a form for VA Healthcare.

So just simply filling out a form for healthcare, something that most veterans could walk into the VA clinic and just accomplish with the VA themselves. They wouldn't even necessarily need our advocacy, although we are happy to do it for them and they were charged $100.

And so when we talk about this for profit space, there are people hiding in the shadows also charging our veterans. So it's not always going to be these large companies. It could be people maybe disguised as helping agencies that are out there. So it's important that we're diligent.

But these brief stories showcase the profound distinction between for profit businesses and our public veterans service offices. And I want to Reinforce that our VSOs and our offices are more than claims processors. We provide comprehensive wraparound services tailored to the individual needs of veterans and their families.

And some of my teammates mentioned this before, but some of those services include the referrals for housing and homelessness prevention, jail visits, veterans treatment courts and case conferencing for justice involved veterans. I don't have a team of justice involved outreach representatives because we're a smaller county. We have about 25,000 veterans and I only have eight employees.

But we still go out twice a month to our jails in South Placer and then up in Auburn to make sure that we're not leaving any of our- any of our service members behind.

Our veterans. Support for veterans in higher education through our partnerships with our community colleges and our universities. Outreach to aging and disabled veterans and assisted living, memory care and veterans homes. Behavioral health coordination including crisis support and peer navigation application assistance for Medi-Cal and VA health care, in home care referrals and aid and attendant support and survivor and burial benefit assistance for spouses and dependents. In California,

this work is done, as mentioned, through a strong partnership with CalVet. CalVet provides essential oversight, leadership and training for all 55 County Veterans Service offices statewide through this relationship. California maintains a unique and high functioning veterans services delivery model. CVSOs in California serve more than 1.43 million veterans, which is nearly 8% of the nation's veteran population.

However, we consistently rank among the top in claim development and benefits secured per capita, including filing 12% of all claims to the VA in 2024, which is punching about 33% above our weight class, and securing $579 million in new federal benefits for our veterans. And I just want to go off script for a minute.

One of the assemblymembers did ask about putting this in a quantitative context and I think it's important to when you look at that $579 million in new federal benefits, a portion of that's going to be recurring benefits.

I know in my own county recurring benefits obviously is going to be smaller a lot of times than those lump sum or those back pay checks that they're getting.

But just doing simple extrapolation of current annual payments for veterans out to 2050 in my county alone, with an attrition rate of 2% because unfortunately our veterans are getting older from the Vietnam era, it still will equate to over 1.0 I would think 1.1 or $1.2 billion in- in- in tax free income to our veterans by 2050.

That's in a really pretty like medium sized county, you know. And so if we do that and extrapolate that across the state, there's no doubt there's an economic impact. And I don't know how many jobs are created and I don't know what that is, but I think that's worth studying.

Thanks to CalVet's dedication to this mission, our professionals undergo rigorous training and are required to maintain VA accreditation through the OGC or the Office of General Counsel. Accreditation is not a one time status as mentioned.

It's earned through successful completion of core competencies, but sustained through continuing education units delivered in conjunction with CalVet and other approved entities, largely at our annual training conferences. This concerns that- this ensures that every CVSO staff member advising a veteran has current, lawful and policy driven knowledge of the VA system.

For profit enterprises are not subject to this level of training, oversight or ethical compliance. Many operate outside of federal guidelines. Some engage in fee collection practices that would be prohibited under federal law if they were accredited representatives. Yet without current legislative clarity, these companies continue to function without legal recourse.

And I wrote a little bit here about the Guard Act and kind of where that's sitting, but I think everybody's familiar so I won't really get into that in the interest of time. I'll move on. Returning to the veteran that was mentioned earlier and many like him, his financial crisis and medical needs should never have been commodified.

He and his daughter should have not been left to navigate a system alone, much less pay for the privilege. This is not a financial transaction, it is a public obligation. This was a 96 year old veteran who was very sick and in need. His service was honorable and he deserved honorable treatment in return.

Sadly, this veteran recently passed away this month. But one thing is for sure, we rallied behind his daughter and helped coordinate funeral benefits and services.

I am thankful that this claim for burial was not able to be monetized but without action, that is what the future holds for veterans who are taken advantage of by predatory for profit VA claims companies. Our veterans do not serve this country to be handed a bill when they seek the benefits they have earned.

We must do everything in our power to connect them to local CVSOs where they can receive service, empathy and expert support, not invoices. Thanks to the partnership and guidance from CalVet, the State of California's model is the national standard, but it can only remain effective if we protect it.

So I ask that we reaffirm our dedication to the public service model of veterans advocacy. We continue to strive for increased revenue, I'm sorry, increased resources for the California County VSOs. And then we will also seek to strengthen our partnerships with state and federal agencies, enforce accreditation standards and pass meaningful legislation to mitigate exploitive practices.

Our disabled veterans are not customers. They are patriots and their benefits are earned and ought to be safeguarded to the maximum extent possible. Pinning your questions after that's my testimony. Thank you.

Thank you so much. And now I assume no relation, Mrs. Johnson.

No relation. Good afternoon. Chair Archuleta and Chair Schiavo and members of the committee. On behalf of the 31,000 veterans residing in Kern County, the homeless veterans served by the California Veterans Assistance Foundation through the Community Action Partnership of Kern and- and the over 80,000 members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars Department of California and our Auxiliary.

Thank you for allowing the opportunity for me to speak today. I also want to thank my colleague in San Luis Obispo to acknowledge the partnership between the VFW and the County Veterans Service Officers. The VFW statewide has four accredited service officers and we know that it is not enough. As an organization,

we are looking at how we can develop more impact in our own state to assist Veterans Service Officers with claim filings.

The VFW has a long history of working on- on this sort of information in my 30 plus years of working with homeless veterans in Wisconsin and California, and as the current state commander of the third largest department in the world, I have seen firsthand the impact of programs and the work that those that are detrimental to our veteran community.

I know that you've already heard a little bit about claim sharks, but I want to talk about the perspective from the Veterans of Foreign Wars and how this has impacted my own community.

Since 2023, the VFW and other veterans service organizations have lobbied Congress on the national level to approve legislation that would impose criminal penalties on unaccredited organizations receiving compensation for helping a veteran apply for benefits. We believe that states need to close the loophole by filing bills to restrict this practice.

Though many lawmakers are up against their own legislative peers and a cadre of industry leaders with lobbyists, 17 states have introduced legislation cracking down on- on for profit consultants. States that have enacted these laws are Maine, New Jersey and New York. In 2024, California proposed SB 1124 with the VFW as a co sponsor.

Despite a lot of support, this bill did not get passed and I am happy to hear that the legislator is going to the legislation- the legislate. I am happy to hear that you guys are going to reintroduce this legislation. This issue is pitting veterans against to one another.

Accredited organizations argue that these companies prey on veterans by taking away veterans hard earned benefits and making a profit off them. For profit consulting companies argue that veterans should have the freedom to hire whomever they want. They are making millions each year.

In a legal loophole, it is illegal under federal law for companies that are not accredited by the VA to charge veterans fees to file claims. That is simple, but there is no criminal penalty for breaking the law. Many of these organizations are also run by veterans.

Lou- Louisiana just enacted a law that allows companies to charge up to $12,500 in fees to file a claim that organizations like the CVSO, American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign wars will do for free. In many jurisdictions there is no requirement for the unaccredited agencies to be licensed, no professional standards and no oversight from a governing body.

Claim sharks are able to advertise broadly on social media, target people through search engines and build websites that look professional but have no real backing. At a VFW post in Southern California, a claim shark company called the Post Commander and asked for a list of their membership.

He also stated that if they provided a list of those members that the VFW post would get money for every claim that they filed. And that is just unacceptable. They are dishonest about what they promise, such as guaranteed 100% ratings or guaranteed expedited processing.

They have no special means to expedite a claim outside the normal hardship options that already exist in the accredited service organizations know how to process.

In fact, claim sharks are notorious for purposely sitting on claims for a year while the intent to file expires so they can take a greater portion of the veteran's potential back pay, aside from the large fees that we've already talked about that they can charge.

When a veteran tries to sever their ties with a claim shark, that's when predatory collection practices begin, causing extreme financial stress and on an already struggling portion of the veteran community. In Taft, a small rural community about 20 miles- 25 miles from Bakersfield, a veteran was targeted by a claim shark company from the East Coast.

Desperate, one of them signed on and was promised compensation for hearing loss. After five months, he received 10% service connection and a bill from the Claim Shark Company for $600. $600 for 10% service connection.

When the veteran was unable to pay, he was threatened with a lawsuit unless he was willing to turn over his login credentials to the VA website. He turned to the Veteran Service Department in Bakersfield for help, but there was nothing that they could do to help this veteran. In addition, these companies have money to lobby.

Our organizations do not have money to lobby and these claims that we're talking about can be filed at no charge. So lobbying efforts from unaccredited claim companies is just unacceptable. Time is valuable to us all. And when an unaccredited party files a bad claim, it can take months before the VA notifies the veteran of this.

And as a result, many veterans are missing their window of opportunity for certain types of appeals to include board reviews which are extremely valuable to a veteran and only can be achieved within a year of their decision. There is no honor for what these companies are doing.

There is no respect for the veteran, their service, their family or their struggles. The only thing they are worried about is their profit margin. This isn't just about money. It's about powerlessness, exploitation and the erosion of trust in the very systems meant to deliver justice. So what can be done?

There are several actions I urge this Committee and policymakers to consider. One, Prohibit contingency or percentage based fees for unlicensed claim agents. Only accredited legal professionals should be allowed to charge based on the outcome of a claim. Number two. Establish a register of authorized compensation advisors.

There should be a clear, transparent way for the public to verify who is accredited and who is not. Three, launch public awareness campaigns. Many veterans do not know there are free, high quality individuals and agencies that are available to them. We must do more to educate the public about their rights and options.

Four, strengthen penalties for misleading conduct. We need real consequences, fines, bans or even criminal charges for those who deceive or take advantage of vulnerable individuals. And five, work with digital platforms to identify and shut down misleading ads and unregulated service providers targeting vulnerable populations. The VFW has put out a flyer.

This is available and what this flyer says is what we think a claim shark is. Some of the predatory practices who we think claim sharks are.

This is a list of agencies and organizations the VFW at the national level has looked into and have seen that they have had predatory practices how veterans can protect themselves and identify who is not a claim shark. In closing, the rise of claim sharks is not just a legal issue, it's a moral one.

These operators exploit the most vulnerable Members of our society for profit under the guise of help. We must act decisively to protect those who are seeking their claims, not allow them to be preyed upon by those who see pain and injury as a business opportunity.

Regulation, public education and enforcement are all essential to ensure veterans receive the benefits and entitlements that they have earned. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I welcome your questions.

Thank you so much. Appreciate your clear suggestions and appreciate everyone's stories that you brought to this conversation to really help illuminate how serious this is and really the real impacts that this has in veterans lives. I want to open it up for questions.

Thank you. Vice Chair. I would like to start with our VA, our CalVet representative. I'm so glad you're here, Mr. Herrera. I really appreciate the work you do and I've got so many questions, but one of them, right off the bat to follow what was just said, couldn't CalVet have some public broadcast service?

I mean, they're out there that we can go ahead and indicate what's on that flyer. Veterans, beware. You are being scammed. You are being taken advantage of. Only deal with accredited service representatives that contact your local VA Veteran Service Officer.

CalVet call, you know, the American Legion, the VSO or whatever it might be, Veterans of Foreign wars, anybody. But can we not do that? Is there, is there a reason that we can't do that?

To directly answer your question, I'd say no, there isn't a reason why we couldn't do that. It's just, you know, we take over. I mean, currently we take over 900 calls to the Department a month. A lot of those are handled by the Veterans Services Division. The majority of them are handled by the Veterans Services Division.

You know, boots on the ground. Our local network coordinators last year interacted with with over 30,000 veterans. Our CalTAT program has interacted with over 35,000 exiting service Members since the program's inception.

And for knowledge, I want everyone to know the Veterans Administration cannot advertise for service or services. But we're State of California, we're Calvet, we're the Committee Handle Military and Veterans affairs with the Assembly and the Senate. And this is what I'm asking for.

So there are as far as the outreach apparatus for the Department, there are ways to message into the veteran community and these are things that we're doing currently in just how we answer or how we respond to questions from veterans who call the Department asking, hey, is this legit? What's going on with this? You need to go to talk to your county service officer.

And maybe you can get with our offices and see what we can do because if we're going to get the word out, maybe the public service method to do it and we should and I know that the things that CalVet does, there's no doubt and I will quickly run through the Orange County cemetery that is on the horizon, the veterans homes.

I believe there's eight VA homes. The fact that you're working with our veterans when they're looking to buy their home and not just buy their home, but insure that home because issue with insurance is a big thing.

But the VA, I'm sorry CalVet has their insurance policy where that veteran finances his home through CalVet, there's insurance attached to it. So he doesn't have to worry about that. But I really think that these claim sharks that we're talking about, we should take on that responsibility. We should take on a very positive role.

This go round last bill didn't make it, but maybe we can do it again. So I look forward to working with you with that and I thank you for that.

And I think that the county Veterans Service Officers that are out there working daily that we heard earlier that where the ask is $14 million to go across the State of California.

And we also heard that that $14 million will transcend into billions in the communities for the economy of California that we've heard and I think that all of us doing that.

And Deborah, I want to thank you for what you do, your auxiliary and all the women who served our great country and we know that we are servicing more women right now than ever before and we got to make sure they're not taking advantage either. Madam Chair, that's all I have.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great idea. And we have, you know, obviously we have our communications offices who could help with PSAs.

I mean, if there are creative ways that we could figure out getting the word out earlier than this legislative process, you know, that's something we could work on now together and would be really happy to partner on something like that because I do think that not only, you know, it's kind of a two for one, it would warn people off of claim sharks, but it also would make sure folks know the right place to go is cvsos.

And so there could be a really good, I think, opportunity for us to get that positive word out and to make sure that folks know what their rights are and how to avoid scams. So, you know, you all am very, very grateful for the work that CalVet is doing and that you're doing. Mr. Herrera.

I know it's a difficult time because of, you know, all the changes and uncertainty that's happening at the federal level and that's making all of our jobs a lot harder and our budget a lot more difficult.

But, you know, we, I think as California have made sure that we step up and make an investment in our veteran community and really prioritize that.

And I think in these times where, you know, veteran services honestly are under attack and, you know, thousands and thousands of staff at the VA are being laid off, we, I think we need to really double down on that and figure out how we can continue to provide a safety net here in California and make sure that those, you know, those veterans who would not have someone to call on a crisis line because of these cuts has somewhere to go and has someone to call.

So I know, you know, these were really compelling stories Mr. Johnson sharing about. And so can you, going back to the story that you shared about the income based claim that was being made for the 96 year old, that's very impressive that he. So what happens in that situation then?

If, you know, they made the claim, the claim sharks made the claim, but they didn't follow up or really do anything else after that and then you're able to actually go in and see it and resolve it and get it to move forward.

Did they still, are they still able to collect on that 96 year old man for that claim?

They would be able to for sure. So I don't know what the burden was on that specific claim. There was significant back pay and those things. I just don't have the dollar amount. I mean, they were very grateful that it was resolved. But yeah, unfortunately they probably did pay some fees.

Okay. Yeah. Even though it was really your work that made it move forward.

Yeah. I mean, those are complex claims, and so there's a lot that goes into it. I think that's what's wild, that somebody who isn't trained would even assist with that because there's a good chance that the, the veteran's daughter did all the work.

You know, whether it's getting a Doctor's appointment, getting the forms filled out that he needs aid, and attendance of another person doing all the financial documents because we leverage our. Those family Members to do the same thing.

We give them aid in attendance packets and we're like, hey, here's all the data that we need from you to file this. So, you know, the bulk of the work for those claims, for as complex as they are, really is on the actual veteran or their family.

And so it kind of stinks that somebody would charge because they're doing all the legwork anyways, to be honest.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for continuing to share more. And I wanted to. Ms. Johnson, you know, I really appreciate the points that you made around real clear actions that we can take.

And I think, you know, the registry is a really interesting idea and reasonably, you know, in terms of resources, something that doesn't take a lot of resources but could make a really big difference for folks.

And I think that's a really interesting one to look into and ways in which, you know, there are ways that we, as, you know, Senators, Assembly Members can put the word out to our own constituents. We communicate with them all the time.

And so would love to get that flyer and get more information that we can share on our own with constituents to make sure that they are aware as well. So appreciate you highlighting that today. We really want to get to public comment and so move on to that.

Yeah, just want to turn it over to the co chair for any.

Thank you, Madam Co Chair. And now, ladies and gentlemen in the audience, I know that you'd love to get up to that microphone and express your support or negative. It's up to you.

I'm going to give you each about two minutes to get up the microphone, address the Committee and hear what you have to say about your fellow veterans or your service or what you think of the Committee meeting. So we'll start with you, Commander, front and center.

I'm David Kuta. I'm a 28 and a half year veteran of the army myself and also with the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

I am very much against the claim shark Bill and one of the things that it was highlighted here today, I'd just like to say with this is that we all understand standards and consequences and having a standard, California is a leader. The nation looks to us. Establish the standard and then impose the penalty and the consequences from the bad actors. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Anyone else, anyone else would like to go in the other way? Okay. Well, with that I'd like to thank my co chair for weighing in with me here and carrying the ball. And I'd also like to thank the Assembly Members and the Senators that came in and out.

As I mentioned earlier that there's a lot of various Committee meetings taking place at this time here, but I'd like to thank each and every one of you for your public comments so we can all hear them. And I want to thank obviously our Calvet representatives and our veterans.

So I think with that, if there are no other questions or comment, I'm going to go ahead and conclude the meeting. And the meeting is here by adjourned. Thank you.

Thank you.

Sam Sa.