Senate Standing Committee on Education
- Josh Newman
Person
Okay. The Senate Committee on Education will come to order. Good morning, everyone. There are 24 bills on today's agenda. However, Item Number 18: AB 2046, from Assembly Member Bryan has been pulled by the author. 16 bills today are on consent.
- Josh Newman
Person
They are as follows: Item Number Three: AB 456, Item Number Four: AB 1939, Item Number Five: AB 3262, Item Number Six: AB 810, Item Number Eight: AB 1575, Item Number Nine: AB 1796, Item Number Ten: AB 1871, Item Number 11: AB 1805, Item Number 12: AB 1821, Item Number 15: AB 1930, Item Number 17: AB 2044, Item Number 20: AB 2173, Item Number 21: AB 2179, Item 22: AB 2268, Item 23: AB 2345, and Item Number 24: AB 2630, and also AB 1955.
- Josh Newman
Person
Just kidding. We will begin with a special order to hear AB 1955 from Assembly Member Ward. Welcome, Assembly Member. Please take your place at the podium. Today's witnesses are asked to limit their testimony to three minutes to ensure the committee is able to complete today's agenda in a timely fashion. Seeing no quorum, let's begin as a subcommittee with the first bill. Welcome again, Assembly Member Ward. You may begin when you are ready.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Thank you, Mr. Chair and Senators who will be joining us soon. I'm here today--
- Josh Newman
Person
Hey, I'm sorry. We really don't have a quorum. Let me wait for one more member.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Let's wait for one more member. Appreciate your time.
- Josh Newman
Person
I appreciate your patience. I was on a roll there.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
It was a good roll.
- Josh Newman
Person
Yeah. I would ask any members of this committee who might be watching on a monitor somewhere to please come join us. All right, well, let's welcome to my colleagues. Senator Glazer, Senator Wilk, good morning. I was all raring a go, got started, noticed you were watching.
- Josh Newman
Person
All right, let me once again say we still do not have a quorum. This is seven-member committee, but again, witnesses will be asked to limit their testimony to three minutes to ensure that we will complete today's testimony, and we will now start as a Subcommittee, and welcome once again to Assembly Member Ward. You may begin when ready.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Well, thank you, Mister chair. And again, Senators, good morning. I'm here today to present AB 1955, the Support Academic Futures and Educators for Today's Youth Act or the Safety Act.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Since 2020, there's been a growing national attack on LGBTQ people, with a number of states and California school districts enacting policies that explicitly require teachers to notify parents if their child identifies as transgender. These policies are known as forced outings.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Forced outing policies that require exposing students without their consent harms everyone, parents, families and and school staff, and importantly, those students by unnecessarily pitting students at risk and removing the opportunities for families to build trust and have conversations on their own terms.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Although many LGBTQ youth have supportive families, some unfortunately continue to face rejection and are exposed to serious harm if prematurely forced to reveal their identity. Young people thrive when they have a parental support and feel safe sharing their authentic selves at home.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
In fact, when LGBTQ youth have their parents support, they have stability and they feel safe sharing their identities with them. Unfortunately, not all young people are able to be their authentic selves, and it can be harmful for LGBTQ youth to share their full identities before they're ready.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Forced outing policies have a measurable impact on the mental health of LGBTQ students and have led to a rise in bullying, harassment, and discrimination. We all know that when one population of the student body is bullied, harassed and discriminated against, all students are impacted.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
As was stated by Kai, LGBTQ youth who bravely joined us in announcing this important piece of legislation, students who have been forcibly outed before they are ready face harassment and abuse, both at school and at home.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Consequences of such bullying, harassment, and abuse have contributed to LGBTQ students getting kicked out of their houses and, unfortunately, some attempting to take their own lives.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Had it not been for an empathetic teacher who allowed Kai to be able to come out to his parents on his own terms, he not only would have been deprived at the time. Excuse me. Excuse me.
- Josh Newman
Person
I'd ask the audience to please give the author and all other witnesses a chance to speak, and if you don't do that, we'll have you removed. Please continue.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Kai's truth was that because of an empathetic teacher, he was able to come. Come out to his parents on his own terms. If not for that, he wouldn't have been able.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
He would have been deprived of the time needed to form some of the best discussion with his family when coming out, but he also shared that he would not be with us today. His story is one of countless youth who are heavily impacted by forced outing policies that target LGBTQ youth in our state.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Forced outing policies not only run contrary to academic research, but also the laws and policies that target or invite targeting of students on the basis of gender or sexual orientation, which which are prohibited under state and federal law.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
As such, I partner with my colleagues on the legislative LGBTQ caucus to introduce the Safety Act to strengthen existing protections against force outings of students in schools. First, it does four things. The Safety Act prohibits and invalidates any policy, rule, or administrative regulation that requires a forced outing.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Second, this bill affirms that teachers and employees shall not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity of students and shall not be compelled to to disclose such an identity unless required to do so by law, such as due to suspicion of harm, as mandated reporters.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Third, this bill protects teachers from facing retaliation for simply doing their jobs, teaching, and providing a safe school environment. And fourth, the Safety Act provides parents, guardians and families of LGBTQ students with critical resources in order to support them in working towards acceptance on their own terms without interference from others.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Now, by strengthening some of the existing protections and supporting families, we will ensure that all students are safe, supported, and not isolated due to any part of their identity, as well as to ensure that families are able to have personal conversations and work towards family acceptance on their own terms.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
With me to speak in support of this Bill is Kristi Hurst, a parent and the co founder of our Schools USA, and Shay Stevens, a teacher and parent herself. Also here is Jennifer Chao, the Interim Director and Staff Attorney with the ACLU, to answer any technical questions.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Welcome to the witnesses. Please come forward. And I think, Miss Hurst, you are first.
- Josh Newman
Person
Yes, you're first. You don't have to be first. You can be first. All right. Please, you have three minutes. Welcome.
- Kristi Hurst
Person
Hi. Is this good?
- Josh Newman
Person
It's great.
- Kristi Hurst
Person
Good morning. My name is Kristi Hurst. I am a public school parent of three children and also the Co Founder of Our Schools USA, a national nonprofit dedicated to protecting quality public education for all students. Parents across California contact us daily concerned about forced outing policies and the extremist school boards that pass them.
- Kristi Hurst
Person
The parents span a variety of races, ethnicities, classes, political groups, and religious views. Their united in recognizing forced outing is harmful, does nothing to improve education and is a waste of public resources. After Chino passed forced outing policy last July, I received dozens of letters from students, parents, teachers, and community members, and I've provided them for you.
- Kristi Hurst
Person
They said, my child is actually not safe at their school. I'm a teacher who hears how afraid students are of this policy. Not only is this discriminatory, they also create a climate of fear and bullying in schools that's bad for all my students.
- Kristi Hurst
Person
This district needs to stop wasting our tax dollars and start doing what benefits all our children. Forced outing has made our district the subject of ridicule and mockery. It damages our community, its image, and also affects our home values, which are closely tied to the reputation of our school district.
- Kristi Hurst
Person
My family has started looking into other school districts. Parents did not ask for a school board to dictate how we raised our children, students said, I feel belittled, uncomfortable and unsafe in my school. The district's job is not to protect the feelings of parents, it's to ensure the safety of all students.
- Kristi Hurst
Person
I should not be forced to tell my parent who says slurs against LGBTQ people that I am what they hate. I am afraid that I will be cast away from my family if they find out.
- Kristi Hurst
Person
Students and their families cannot survive another year of this not being resolved by the state because the extremists won't stop wasting public money on their political crusades. The time to resolve any ambiguity is now. Pass the Safety Act because we need quality public education and safe learning environments.
- Kristi Hurst
Person
We need school boards to be focused on educating kids, not political crusades. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Miss Stevens, welcome.
- Kristi Hurst
Person
Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Please proceed when ready.
- Shay Stevens
Person
Okay. Good morning. My name is Shay Stevens and I am a high school teacher in one of the 12 districts that has passed a forced outing policy. I'd like to share a personal story about the impact this has had on the culture and safety of our school.
- Shay Stevens
Person
When we became privy to the fact that our board would be voting on this policy, we encouraged our students to come to the board meeting and be part of the democratic process. Inevitably, many in our LGBTQ student community felt compelled to attend.
- Shay Stevens
Person
We sat in our school's library listening to grown adults berate our most vulnerable students by referring to them as abominations, accusing them of pedophilia, and calling them all sorts of dehumanizing names. Some even brought prepared signs to hold up in front of the crowd. Only one identifying student spoke at the podium amid sneers and whispers.
- Shay Stevens
Person
As I looked around the room, many of the kids sat in silence, tears streaming down their faces, unable to find the courage to stand up and defend themselves against those who are supposed to protect them. Encouraging those students to attend that meeting was the greatest mistake of my career.
- Shay Stevens
Person
Since then, it has been one discriminatory policy after the next, from the ban of all flags, Save the American or state flag to attempts to ban mental health services for our students. Board meetings have gone from traditional 45 minutes to four to 6 hours.
- Shay Stevens
Person
We're chasing our tails trying to do our day jobs while also fighting to maintain a safe and healthy environment for our students. It has become blatantly clear that this push from the outside, from outside political propagandists, has nothing to do with parental rights and everything to do with discrimination. Against our most vulnerable populations.
- Shay Stevens
Person
This imbalance of power has made it clear that I, having the privilege of being an educator with a voice, had to come here today and speak to the damage these rogue boards are doing to our children. Student safety should never be compromised by extreme ideology.
- Shay Stevens
Person
It is our solemn duty to protect and serve every student in our classrooms. Please allow us to teach in a welcoming environment where children feel safe, stand with educators, and pass Assembly Bill 1955.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. At this point, I'd ask any members of the public who'd like to come forward and testify and support the bill to come to the microphone and state your name, your organization, and your position only. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Good morning, sir.
- Craig Pulsipher
Person
Good morning. Craig Pulsipher here today on behalf of Prorietta, Translatina, San Diego Pride, San Joaquin Pride Center, the Translatina Coalition, Tom Homan, LGBTQ Law Association, and West side activists in our schools, La.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Tony Hoang
Person
My name is Tony Hoang. On behalf of Equality California, respectively ask for an aye vote.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Kathy Moehlig
Person
Kathy Moehlig, she/her Trans Family Support Services I vote, as well as American Atheists, the California LULAC, California School-Based Alliance, Heart of LA Democratic Club, the Inland Empire, Prism collective, and the LGBTQ Center of Orange County.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Nicole Morales
Person
Nicole Moroles, on behalf of Children Now in strong support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next.
- Shonda Wesley
Person
Shonda Wesley, on behalf of our families, our voices and strong support, and on behalf of the following allies, parents and family who have asked me to express their support for AB 1955, Miss Goboudreau and Erica Bauman Whittier, Nicole and David Beckstra and El Cajon, Claire DeVries, Folsom, Mara Hui, Sacramento, Christy Barnas, West Sacramento.
- Shonda Wesley
Person
Emily Levy, Santa Cruz, Claudia Vieira Allen, Elena Sobrante, Gillian Levi, Escondido, Josh Clark, Sacramento, Monica Tarbuskovich Mather, Dana Watts, Orange County, Peter Dahlan, Jeff Inslee, Chico and from Sacramento, Kristen Wagner, Kim Mickelnay, Queen Boos, Nicole Roberts, Morgan Cotton, Stephanie Baxter, Kelly Stout, Kristen Stout, Paula Knoll, Elizabeth Campbell, Renani Stokes, Christina Niemi, Melanie Bean and Valerie Oldham. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Sylvia Romo
Person
Sylvia Romo from Sacramento with the Building Skills Partnership, also a parent of a Trans youth in strong support. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Emily Lowe
Person
Emily Lowe, parent from Davis in support of this bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Frank Bailey
Person
Frank Bailey, Greater Placer County PFLAG, in support of this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Diane Bailey
Person
Diane Bailey from PFLAG, Greater Placer County, I have a Trans son and strong support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Laura Barrett
Person
My name is Laura Barrett. I live in Sacramento and I have a nonbinary youth in my family. I'm here to support this bill, AB 1955.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Annie Chou
Person
Hi, Annie Chou with the California Teachers Association in support also on behalf of the LA LGBT Center, North County LGBT Resource Center, One Institute, Our Family Coalition, Our schools USA, Carlsbad and PFLAG, Fresno. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Kristen Milliken
Person
Hi, my name is Kristin Milliken, I live in Sacramento. I have a nonbinary youth in my family and I'm here because I strongly support this bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Jackie Howard
Person
Jackie Howard with California Teachers Association on behalf of my three kiddos in Placer County schools.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next.
- Randy Stevens
Person
Hi, my name is Randy K. Stevens. I'm a parent here in Sacramento. I want all of our schools to be a safe place for our students. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Karen Humphrey
Person
Thank you, Mister chair and Committee, I'm Karen Humphrey, I'm with the National Women's Political Caucus of California and we support this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Sue Granzella
Person
Hi, I'm Sue Granzella, retired member of from 32 years as a CTA Member, and I'm in strong support of this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Tiffany Mok
Person
Tiffany Mock, on behalf of CFT, in strong support. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Kat Besse
Person
Kat Besse, on behalf of the California Alliance of Child and Family Services, in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Jonathan Higgins
Person
Doctor Jonathan Higgins with Rainbow Pride Youth Alliance here to support this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Kanan Durham
Person
Kanan Durham of Pride at the Pier in Orange County and a Trans man, and I support this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
Hi, my name is Bri from Glendora. I'm a queer, non binary educator on behalf of myself and every single LGBTQ youth who is no longer with us and cannot speak for themselves, I speak in strong support of this Bill. Because every child needs a supportive learning. Thank you.
- Angie Gavant
Person
I'm Angie Gavant on behalf of Glendale Unified Parents for Public Schools, and we are in strong support of passing AB 1955. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Jessica Geshe
Person
Jessica Geshe, San Mateo Board Member, PFLAg San Jose Peninsula. Strong support of this bill. Thank you,
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Claudia Silva
Person
Hello. Claudia Silva, elementary school teacher and strong supporter of this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
Laura, public school parent of two children and I support this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Jessica Marquez
Person
Jessica Marquez, on behalf of State Superintendent Public Instruction, Tony Thurmond, in proud support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Linda Ortega
Person
Good morning, my name is Linda Ortega from the Mount Diablo Education Association in the Concord area. I am a proud auntie of transgender children, students and my sister. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Anne Bowler
Person
My name is Anne Bowler from Placer County, and I'm in strong support of this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Millie Yan
Person
Millie Yan, a parent of public school kids in Placer County, and I'm here in support of AB 1955.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Jacob Daravula
Person
Hello, Jacob Daravala from the Inland Empire. Representing parent Renee Boiardo, the Trans Youth Liberation and Divine Truth Unity Fellowship Church. And we are in favor of this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Michelle Tong
Person
Hi, my name is Michelle Tong. I'm with Our Schools Placer, and I'm in strong support of AB 1955.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Rex Carpenter
Person
Rex Carpenter. I'm with Placer County. I strongly support this Bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Meg Wiese
Person
My name is Meg Wiese. I'm with Our Schools Placer, and I strongly support this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Daisy Gardner
Person
Hi, my name is Daisy Katherine Gardner. I am with Our Schools USA Los Angeles. I am a parent of public school children and a LGBTQ youth. I am also here for Safe Redlands schools. Tricia Keeling, Amber Easley, and others in strong support of this bill. Thank you so much for considering.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Emily Mitchell
Person
Good morning. My name is Doctor Emily Mitchell. My pronouns are she and her, and I am here representing the California Community College LGBTQ Advisory Committee, and we are in strong support of this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, Doctor Mitchell. Next, please.
- Ellen Riley
Person
Ellen DeBach Riley, proud citizen of the LGBT community and hoping this bill will pass because it will protect today's youth against what my generation experienced.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Barbara Brass
Person
Barbara Brass, leader of the Rat Pack Resistance Action, Tuesdays and Thursdays in Placer County. I support this, as does my organization. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Celia Owens
Person
Good morning. Celia Medina Owens, proud public school teacher, second graders at Foothill elementary in Pittsburg, California, and I strongly support this Bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Bob Carson
Person
My name is Bob Carson. I'm a proud educator from Antioch, and I strongly support this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Rob Darrow
Person
My name is Doctor Rob Darrow. I'm from Santa Cruz. I'm a parent. I am a lifelong K-12 educator in California. I'm an Adjunct Professor in the credential program at CSU Monterey Bay and also Director of professional learning for the Safe Schools Project of Santa Cruz County, and our organization strongly supports this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Julian Jacqueline
Person
I'm Julian Jacaranda Jacqueline. I'm a student speaking on behalf of queer youth and students from Santa Cruz. And all across the county country to say that we all show support for this Bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Sean Chen
Person
Sean McMullen Chen. I'm a teacher, high school teacher in Manhattan Beach, California, and parent and resident of Manhattan Beach, California in strong support of this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Marcela Chagoya
Person
Good morning. Marcela Chagoya, 25 year long career educator, middle school, my entire career here in support of this Bill, representing United Teachers Los Angeles and LAUSD and California Federation of Teachers and CTA.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Talia Catano
Person
Hello, Talia Diaz Catano, I'm a proud parent of a first grader and also a public school educator in Boyle Heights in LA, and I'm in support of this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Kathryn Eisenstein
Person
Hi, my name is Kathryn Eisenstein, I'm an educator at Lausd. I'm representing UTLA, CTA, CFT and as the aunt of a child who is non binary, I strongly support this.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, thank you. Next please.
- Eve Banas
Person
Eve Banas with the Sacramento LGBT Community Center and strong support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Jesse Aguilar
Person
Good morning. Jesse Aguilar, I'm a high school art teacher in Bakersfield, been teaching for the last 28 years and I strongly support this Bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Hector Vega
Person
Good morning, I'm Hector Vega, here on behalf of the Association De Maestros Unidos. I'm a US history teacher in Los Angeles and I strongly support this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Jay Mason
Person
Good morning. Jay Mason, proud educator from Campbell, California, In strong support of this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, next please.
- Renata Sanchez
Person
Hi, Renata Sanchez, I am an elementary school instructional coach where I work primarily with probationary teachers gaining their credentials from San Jose, and I stand in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, next please.
- Allison Klabe
Person
Hi there, I'm Allison Klabe, high school special education teacher in Palos Verdes and I strongly support this Bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, next please.
- Dane Contarsi
Person
Hello, my name is Dane Contarsi, I'm a teacher at Hawthorne High School. I teach world history, AP Economics, AP government, and AVID and Hawthorne High School, Sentinel Valley Secondary Teachers Association and CTA support this Bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, next please.
- David Navarro
Person
David Navarro, public school teacher and father of public school students and strong support. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Angela Doramos
Person
Angela Doramos, fifth grade teacher and a school board trustee in Salinas and I support this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, next please.
- Kim Weseinek
Person
Good morning. Kim Lewis, representing the California Coalition for Youth in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, next please.
- Maureen Gray
Person
Good morning, my name is Maureen Kiros Gray, I'm an educator in Norwalk, La Morata, and I strongly support this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Ismael Armendariz
Person
Good morning. Ismael Armendariz, President of the Oakland Education Association. On behalf of our 3000 Members, we strongly support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please.
- Kristin Lowevenos
Person
Hi, I'm Kristin Lowevenos, I'm a secondary English teacher in Compton, California, and I strongly support this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Pat Thompson
Person
Hi, I am Colonel Pat Thompson, and I served 37 years in military service to our country and I strongly support this bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, and thank you for your service. Next, please.
- Stephen Frazer
Person
Hi, I'm Stephen Frazer, a science teacher in Chino, California, and I'm here in support of this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Tracy Taylor
Person
Hi, my name is Tracy Taylor. I'm an elementary school teacher in Ontario, Montclair, and I strongly support this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Wei-Tsu Loh
Person
Good morning. My name is Wei-Tsu Loh. I'm a school psychologist for children from K to high school, and I strongly support this Bill from Pomona.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Astin Williams
Person
Good morning. Astin Williams, California LGBTQ Health and Human Services Network, and we strongly support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Molly Robson
Person
Good morning. Molly Robson with Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California in strong support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Jeannie Kim
Person
Jeannie Kim, law student and Public of California or product of California public schools and strong support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Kathleen Mossburg
Person
Kathy Mossberg on behalf of the APLA Health, San Francisco AIDS foundation and the Epidemics Coalition, all in strong support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Stanley Clover
Person
My name is Stanley Clover. My pronouns are he/they. I'm a proud Trans man, and I, strongly support this Bill.
- Alex Soto
Person
Thank you. Good morning. I'm the Reverend Alex De Silva Soto. My pronouns are they, them, and theirs. And I serve as Sierra Foothills Unitarian Universalist and strong support of this Bill and gratitude for it. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Alicia Watkins
Person
Hi, thank you for your time. My name is Alicia Watkins. I'm a journalist with the Voices of Placer and as a Member of the 2SLGBTQIA and a parent of a two s LGBTQIA student, I am in strong and passionate support of this bill. Thank you. Thank you for your consideration.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Carrie Fantham
Person
Carrie Fantham, Placer County parent of an LGBTQ student. I am in strong support of this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Faith Lee
Person
Good morning. Faith Lee, with Asian Americans Advancing Justice Southern California, we're in proud support. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Duke Cooney
Person
Duke Cooney on behalf of ACLU California Action in strong support. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, next.
- Amber Bradley
Person
Doctor Amber Bradley, government teacher representing the Washington Unified School District in West Sacramento, and I'm in strong support of this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Megan Ellsberg
Person
Megan Ellsberg, 7th and 8th grade teacher, President of Laguna Salada Education Association in Pacifica School District, in strong support. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Rachel Merlot
Person
Hello, Rachel Merlot from Pacifica, both parent and public school teacher for middle school, and I am in strong support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Thank you. Next, please.
- Chelsea Grove
Person
Good morning. Chelsea Grove, parent of three children at Elk Grove Unified School District, and I am here in opposition of this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
This is support. Next, please.
- Shannon Catanella
Person
Good morning. Shannon Catanella. I am a resident of California. I am the parent of three children spanning three districts in California in the Placer Area. And I strongly support the protections of this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you to the sergeants. Anybody else outside? Okay. That's all the support. So terrific. At this point, we do have a quorum. Let me get that established. Madam Clerk, please call the roll.
- Committee Secretary
Person
[Roll Call]
- Josh Newman
Person
We do now have a quorum. And now we will move on to opposition to the measures. So for the principal witnesses in opposition, the measure, please come forward to the table. And as you do, let's welcome Julie from Missouri, who is watching loyally, as she always does.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
Is trying to come up right there.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
She knows she's in all of the emails. There's just two.
- Josh Newman
Person
All right. I show two principal witnesses, Ms. Aurora Regino and Dr. Arthur de Lorimier. Which of you would like to go first? Like the other witnesses, you have three minutes. Please proceed.
- Aurora Regino
Person
All right. Hi. Thank you. My name is Aurora Regino. Until the events involving my daughter, I was a registered democrat. I voted for same sex marriage. I am a plaintiff in a lawsuit that I filed against Chico Unified School District for their secret social transition of my 11 year old daughter.
- Aurora Regino
Person
In the fall of 2022, following the death of her grandfather, my daughter was depressed. I also had breast cancer, and our family was going through a difficult time. My daughter was influenced by her school to believe that her sadness was because she was really a boy.
- Aurora Regino
Person
When she told a school counselor that she felt this way, the counselor did not tell me. Instead, without contacting me, the counselor and my daughter's teacher arranged for the entire school to begin using a male name that my daughter had picked out and referred to her with the male pronouns.
- Aurora Regino
Person
The school cemented and encouraged this male identity for my daughter behind my back. Over that period, my daughter's depression worsened. Finally, my daughter told her grandmother, my mother, about what was going on at school. My mother told me. I was horrified that the school had done this without even informing me.
- Aurora Regino
Person
My daughter was just confused about her identity. When I learned of what was going on, I was able to get my daughter the therapy she needed. But because she had been socially transitioned at school, she felt trapped in the new boy identity that the school was encouraging.
- Aurora Regino
Person
She continued to go by the boys name and pronouns for the rest of the school year because she felt trapped. My daughter still struggles with her mental health today. Later, when I complained to the school about what had happened, I learned about the school's parental secrecy policy, which takes parents out of the equation.
- Aurora Regino
Person
This drives a wedge between the parent and child. I understand my daughter's school continues to deceive parents to this day. Had I not found out what the school was doing to my daughter, she likely would have kept identifying as a boy. Like many children, she probably would also have moved towards irreversible medical interventions, like a mastectomy.
- Aurora Regino
Person
Before I learned what was going on, she had already had conversations about breast binding with the school counselor. AB 1955 is misnamed. It should be called "School Secrets Act" because that's what it is. If it passes, children will be universally harmed. Schools should not keep secrets about children's acute distress with their body.
- Aurora Regino
Person
Gender dysphoria can be a serious condition, and parents need to be involved in their children's treatment. If you want to prevent suicide in trans-identifying children, you involved parents. Parents are the people who love their children the most and unconditionally.
- Aurora Regino
Person
Gender dysphoria is a mental health issue completely different from sexual orientation and dysphoric children need help from their parents, not secrecy from their school. The Children's Secret Act puts vulnerable children at risk when they need their parents the most. I am not the only parent with this story. Read duty's opposition letter, vote no on AB 1955. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Dr. Lorimier, am I pronouncing that correctly?
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
Close enough. My name is Dr. Arthur de Lorimier. I am a Chief of Pediatric Gastroenterology at the University of California Davis. I am a clinical professor and I care for trans-identified children.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
My comments are strictly my own opinion as a pediatrician and a California native and are not intended to represent the position of the University of California. A transgender child is a child with a gender identity disorder or gender dysphoria.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
Under the current "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders", the dysphoria is characterized by a child's severe and persistent discomfort with his or her sex. Until about a decade ago, gender dysphoria afflicted fewer than 0.01% of the population and mostly young males.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
That figure began increasing exponentially right around the time schools started teaching that a person can be born in the wrong body. Social media contributed to this massive surge in adolescents, mostly females, into adopting trans identities. Last year, Reuters reported that in 2016, there were 1000 California kids diagnosed as gender dysphoric.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
By 2020, that number had tripled, and that increase continues to steadily climb. Nothing in medicine increases like that without external forces. The Cass Review, published last month, is the largest systematic review in the world regarding gender dysphoric youth.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
The report raises significant concerns about socially transitioning minors using new names or pronouns or whatever, stating that the transition is not a neutral act, but a profound psychological intervention with potentially irreversible consequences. The Cass Review also noted that dysphoria is often combined with other acute mental health issues that must be addressed.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
Dr. Cass found the quality of the evidence to transition minors was, "disappointingly poor". New court documents reveal that the Johns Hopkins 2020 Review reached the same conclusion. Parents must be involved in their gender dysphoric children at the inception of the adoption of a new identity. Schools should not conduct psychological interventions without parental consent.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
Parents play the most vital role in the physical and mental wellness of their children. Gender dysphoric youth are at greater risk of suicide than their peers from the distress of the dysphoria, not from being unaffirmed. Keeping the behavior of these vulnerable children's secret from their parents is ill advised at best. I urge you to oppose AB 1955 in any form and I'm happy to take your questions.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. We'll get to questions. Please hold your applause. Are there any members of the public who'd like to come forward in opposition to the measure? If so, please come forward to the microphone. As with the supporters, we would ask you to state your name, your organization and your position on the measure. And that is all.
- Erin Friday
Person
Good morning. I'm also here as a technical witness if you need one on the law. My name is Erin Friday. I'm a licensed attorney. I represent Our Duty, Protect Kids California and Democrats for an Informed Approach to Gender. I'm a mother of a daughter who used to believe that she was a boy.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Denise Aguilar
Person
My name is Denise Aguilar, co-founder of Freedom Angels, in opposition. Also speaking on behalf of Sonia Shaw of Chino Valley School District, in opposition.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Tara Thornton
Person
Tara Thornton, co-founder of Freedom Angels. And on behalf of all the Californians that don't know about AB 1955, do not support parental alienation. We are in strong opposition.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Julie Lane
Person
My name is Julie Lane. I'm a lesbian democrat from San Francisco. Here as a member of Women are Real, Women's Declaration International and Women's Liberation Front. And on behalf of the Coalition of No One Can Change Their Sex, the Coalition of Lesbians, Gay Men and Bisexuals, and the Coalition of Sane People. I strongly oppose this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Cynthia Cravens
Person
My name is Cynthia Cravens. I'm a recent candidate for California State Senate district 11. I'm with Women are Real and I am a lifelong liberal. I strongly oppose this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Beverly Talbot
Person
Beverly Talbot, liberal democrat and lesbian from San Francisco. Concerned about gay and lesbian youth being told they are born in the wrong body simply because they are gender non-conforming--
- Josh Newman
Person
Just your position, please.
- Beverly Talbot
Person
Strong opposition.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Nicole Young
Person
Nicole Young, Moms For Liberty Placer County, in strong opposition. I'm also representing Kimberly Crabtree from Placer County, Christina Munoz, Dan Sturger, Gretchen Stevens, April Huckabee and Amanda Kuntz. We are all in very strong opposition.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, Ms. Young. Next, please.
- Cheyenne Kenny
Person
Cheyenne Kenny from Oakland, California, and student at UC Berkeley. Strongly oppose this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Lance Christensen
Person
Lance Christensen, Vice President of the California Policy Center, in strong opposition to this bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Brena Sheehy
Person
Brena Sheehy, representing Protection of the Educational Rights of Kids Advocacy, in strong opposition.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Joanie Greep
Person
Hi, Joanie Greep, mother of a 15 year old, 13 year old, and eight year old in public schools. I'm a registered nurse. I'm a locally elected board trustee on my school district, and I'm here on behalf of Take a Stand Stanislaus, California Nurses United, and numerous individuals who could not attend today. The following names: Corinne Whitlow, Joseph Whitlow, Kelly Selman, Michael Gamas, Cassandra Gamas, Anthony Durazo, Anna Durazo, Vanessa Santos, Candice Weirck, Laura Estrella, and Stephanie Degrees, in strong opposition.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Megan Short
Person
Megan Short, mother of four school age children, in strong opposition.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Elizabeth Kenney
Person
Elizabeth Kenney. I come from Oakland, California. I represent poor moms against overreaching hands. This bill is going to destroy the trust every parent has--
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Elizabeth Kenney
Person
Yeah, I oppose it.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Rochelle Conner
Person
Rochelle Conner on behalf of Frederick Douglass Foundation of California as well as Concerned Women for America, representing moms and families across the the state, in strong opposition and respectfully ask for a no vote.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Margaret Arader
Person
Hello. My name is Margaret Arader. I am the mother of public school students. No child is safe when lies of gender ideology are taught in school. I am opposed to this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Leandra Lepp
Person
My name is Leandra Lepp, and on behalf of myself and other LGBTQ friends who understand the value of parents, we oppose this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Ava Dubose
Person
My name is Ava Dubose, and I am 13, and I oppose this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Sabrina Williams
Person
My name is Sabrina Williams, on behalf of Mom Army California. We strongly oppose this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Courtney Graves
Person
My name is Courtney Graves, and I am part of Mom Army California, and we strongly oppose this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Jodi Buda
Person
My name is Jodi Buda. I've been an educator of California public schools for 25 years, California public school administrator, and I'm against this bill. Along with the South Placer Republican Women's Federation, Ladies of Auxiliary, Board of Placer County, and Moms for Liberty, against this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Zachary Holse
Person
My name is Zachary Holse, and as a high school student myself, I strongly oppose this bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Charlotte Johnson
Person
Charlotte Johnson, concerned parent. We parents deeply resent schools making us parents the enemy. Is anyone even--
- Josh Newman
Person
Your position, please. Thank you. Thank you.
- Beth Bourne
Person
Hi. My name is Beth Bourne. I'm the Chapter Chair for Moms For Liberty Yolo County. My daughter was socially transitioned at Davis. Here's a big article in the Sacramento Bee about how she grew out of her trans identity. And I just want to let you know, I strongly oppose this bill because my daughter was able to grow into a young woman.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Jessica Spade
Person
Good morning. Jessica Spade, mother of five, trustee in a local placer county school, and I strongly oppose this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Samara Palko
Person
Good morning, Chair. Samara Palko with California Catholic Conference, in opposition.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Leslie Sawyer
Person
Hello, Leslie Sawyer, Moms for Liberty Shasta County. Also here for Katie Gorman of Moms for Liberty Shasta County and Protect Kids California. We super strongly object to this bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Palace Leavitt
Person
Good morning, my name is Palace Leavitt. I'm the California co-chapter leader of Gays against Groomers, and we strongly, strongly oppose this bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Greg Burt
Person
Greg Burt, Vice President of the California Family Council and in opposition with our 70,000 subscribers. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Brandon Campbell
Person
Pastor Brandon Campbell, Faith Baptist Church in Wheatland and Northern California Director for California Baptist for Biblical Values, in opposition.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Christine Campbell
Person
Christine Campbell, concerned parent, in strong opposition.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Peggy Delgado Fava
Person
Peggy Delgado Fava. I'm a school board trustee, Executive Director for Bridge-Network and Sacramento Networks with at-risk youth and also a survivor of early childhood trauma that dealt with gender identity issues. I'm also affiliated with Amen Clinics as a brain health professional. I oppose this bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Stephanie Swela
Person
My name is Stephanie Swela. I'm a concerned parent, grandparent and a great-grandparent. We are responsible for our children's--
- Josh Newman
Person
Just your position, please. Thank you. Next, please.
- Stephanie Swela
Person
--I oppose this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Alison Novello
Person
Alison Novello of Reality Encompassed Values For Our Women, in strong opposition of AB 1955.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- David Bullog
Person
Good morning, Senators. My name is David Bullock. I'm representing the San Fernando Valley, excuse me, SFV Alliance, LA County Chapter of Moms for Liberty, Mary C. Weller, TruthXChange, the Facts Law Truth Justice Law Firm, Taxpayer Oversights for Parents and Students, Informed Parents of Capistrano Unified School District and your favorite, Goat Farmers for Better Government. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, Mr. Bullock. Next, please.
- Mike Murray
Person
Morning. Mike Murray, parent from Rockland Unified School District, speaking on my behalf and on behalf of American Counsel. Please trust the parents in opposition to this bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Any other witnesses in opposition? Coming from outside, do we have any? I think we do. None? We're done? We're good. Okay, let us come back to the dais here for questions or comments from my colleagues. If I could, I think if we could have the two primary witnesses come from each side come back to the table, please.
- Josh Newman
Person
Welcome back. Colleagues, questions, comments for the author regarding the bill? Senator Glazer.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Assembly Member Ward, thank you for your work on this issue. I know it's not an easy one, given the testimony we heard today. I just had some basic questions I wanted to ask you about. Is this bill consistent with the Education Code in regard to parents' access to their school school records?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Yes, it is.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Does this bill interfere in a parent's communication with their child in any way?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
No. They are free to communicate with them in any way they see fit.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Does this bill limit the ability of a counselor or a teacher to communicate with a parent if they thought it was in the student's best interest?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
It does not limit them. In fact, it requires them to be able to do that if it's in the student's best interest.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Does the school get involved in any medical procedures of a student?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Never.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Thank you very much.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
In fact, I would add that that is always--gender-affirming care for minors is always--in the state--is always subject to parental consent.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Thank you, sir. I'm happy to move the bill at the appropriate time.
- Josh Newman
Person
Appreciate that. Senator Gonzalez.
- Lena Gonzalez
Legislator
Thank you, and I appreciate the questions by my colleague, Senator Glazer, and I just want to say thank you for bringing this forward. I often say in these environments that I am also mom of a public school student, and I am absolutely in support of this bill because of what it means for the child.
- Lena Gonzalez
Legislator
I actually have a neighbor who is transgender and going through his experience, and learning from his experience has not only made me a better Senator, but a better mother, just understanding what these children are going through and that they're not issues that prevent a parent from still having conversations with their child about their identity.
- Lena Gonzalez
Legislator
And so with that, it is brave of you and the LGBTQ Caucus for bringing this forward, and I just want to thank you, and ultimately, of course, support. And I know it's already been moved, but would be happy to move it along.
- Josh Newman
Person
To move it again. Any other comments? Questions? Senator Ochoa Bogh.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Hello, Member Ward. First, I want to highlight the fact that it is encouraging to see that one thing that everyone has in common, whether you're in support or in opposition of this bill, is the fact that everyone cares about our children and everyone is trying to do what they feel or understand to be best for that child. And I think we have to focus on that and not--and understand the anger on either side of what it entails as we move forward and to understand that when it comes to the root of all anger, is fear.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
So as we navigate this very delicate subject, as we all have family members or friends, colleagues or constituents that are members of the LGBTQ community, that we learn necessarily, not necessarily accept, but most importantly, respect. And I think that's important in the conversations that we have.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
And I'm trying not to get emotional on this part because I do see, I do see the needs. With that, as we are going to discuss this bill, I do have some questions, and we're going to flow along with them very delicately, but I do want to preface some facts with this bill. Let's begin.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
And I want to clarify, because sometimes what I hear, and I try to be very objective, and when I hear discussions on legislation, I try to hear both sides and try to facilitate the discussion because sometimes we get so involved in our own understanding and our own biases that we can't see the other side, and sometimes what I see is communication that goes like this. So in pursuing the line of questioning, I'm going to be very, very--try to be as clear as I can be. So preface my discussion with a few facts about this bill.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Currently, it's my understanding that there are eight school districts and one charter school that have passed a parental notification policy and none of those policies require schools to reveal a student's sexual orientation. Am I correct?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
I believe that is correct.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Okay. And the reason I say that is because we're talking and referring to this bill as an outing, and I think there is a misunderstanding that right now, currently, as there's a contention between whether or not parents are informed or not informed, we're viewing that as a means of publicly letting people know where a child is with their sexual orientation or their gender dysphoric. And we're going to go through that really quick. So what I understand is that--
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Senator, if I may?
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Yes, yes.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Actually, my notes were miscorrect. Actually, the Chino Unified School District does have a policy that is both on sexual orientation and gender identity, and certainly, given the status of the ambiguity that we have today, any school district could be able to pass a similar policy as well.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Similar. Okay. So we're going to request--I'm not sure if anybody here has the language on that because it's my understanding that it doesn't include that. Oh.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
I do. I'm a Chino parent, and as well as the head of Our Schools USA, and the Chino policy requires that it is actually under an injunction at the moment, but when it was put into place, it requires parent notification if a child asks to use a restroom of a gender other than what their bi ons on their birth certificate, if they ask to play on a team, and also if they ask to use a pronoun or a name in their official or unofficial records.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
That is how the policy reads in Chino. So--and that's the similar policy that has been adopted by districts across the State of California. So I believe Anderson has the same policy. There's a few minor changes across the state, but Chino is the only district that has ever actually implemented the policy fully, but again, it is under--temporary. It's under an injunction at the moment, and they have revised the policy as well, but that has not come forward or nothing has happened with the new revision.
- Josh Newman
Person
Ms. Froy, you want to comment on this specific issue?
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
Yes. Please, because I wrote the policy for--I wrote the parental notification policies. So the parental notification policy for Chino Valley does not touch on gen--or sorry--sexual orientation at all. None of them do. I wrote the majority of them. They all deal with whether a school is participating in the social transition of a child.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
So when a child asks the school to change their name, when a child asks the school to call them different names or accommodate them by permitting them to use different bathrooms or a different sports team, it does not cover where a child--where a teacher hears that a child is transgender. There is no notification requirement whatsoever. It's only if the school participates in the social transition, which is a psycho, social, medical intervention for the child.
- Josh Newman
Person
I appreciate that. Ms. Hirst, to your point, that at least implicitly, that's exactly what's happening if a parent is notified about a student's choice of restroom, correct?
- Kristi Hirst
Person
Correct. But again, it is under an injunction, but that was it, and it is if a student asks to even use anything. It doesn't have to be likes changed in the record. If a student asks the teacher to call them by a name other than what is on their official record or go by a pronoun other than what is on their official record, that would prompt a notification.
- Josh Newman
Person
Okay. Now Senator Ochoa Bogh, ask for clarification so we can move on. I don't know if we provided it or not, so go ahead, Senator.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Thank you. So basically, change the record--or so, these policies only require parental notification if the student requests that the school participate in the social transitioning? Correct? Meaning that they're requiring different bathrooms or different name pronouns or if they want to use sex-segregated spaces that don't align with their biological sex?
- Kristi Hirst
Person
If a student requests to go by a pronoun or a name other than what is on their official records, that prompts a notification to their families, their parents. Correct.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Yeah. We wanted to make sure that we have that clear. Okay. So, many school districts have adopted the 'secret' social transition plans at their schools, basically not informing their parents that their child struggles with gender dysphoria. The plans are a result of the Department of Education's frequently asked questions.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
What is the--what is interesting is that the Department of Education's lawyers have admitted in court that the secrecy--this is not my words, by the way; not my words; I'm reading here--'the secrecy policies are not law. AB 1955 will require the schools to keep the students' gender dysphoria private from the parents unless the students give permission.' Is that correct?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
So, first, I would object that characterization that schools are adopting secrecy policies.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Okay. Privacy.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Privacy policies are upheld under both the U.S. and the state constitution, and in fact, that is what has basically come under challenge in many of these court cases, and so as we are seeing, ultimately, general consistency that a constitutional right to privacy prevails over other questions that are being evaluated, still some ambiguity under some of the technical details when a certain element of that case needs to be permitted to be able to move forward. So that's where we're trying to be able to clarify sort of the common baseline here through this bill.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Okay. And AB 1955 would apply to a student of any age, is that correct?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
It does apply as general policy throughout school districts. However, the support direction under the fourth point of this bill is actually applicable for grades seven through 12.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
But it is for--it could potentially apply for any, for any child, any age?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
It applies for any school or school district.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Okay. Got it. Okay. So under this bill, what would happen to a teacher or school employee if they tell the parents of a student's struggles with gender dysphoria or that they have adopted a transgender identity without the permission of the student?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Nothing would happen under this bill. If a teacher, as a mandated reporter, does feel that there is reason for concern, if there is an exhibition of, you know, declining performance in schools, struggles, clear attribution of mental health struggles, or the worst, of course, a self-reported worry or risk of harm, for any of these reasons, using, I think, best-sense judgment, there is an allowance for them to be able to exercise their duty as mandated reporters, but what this does do is it does not actually create or permit an overarching policy that prohibits forced outings.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And that is the distinction there: use basically an individualized discretion to be able to do that, and it also would prohibit, I think, the activity, the overarching activity that we're seeing at some of our schools that are putting teachers in a very difficult place where they don't want to be the gender police. They want to teach.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
So when we say forced outings, what you're really technically referring to is informing the parents? Not necessarily, because I don't think any, any policy or any teacher would publicly disclose a child's sexual orientation or unless that child requests to be publicly referred to by certain pronouns. I don't think any teacher would publicly inform the rest of the school district about the child's personal identity, right? When you say outing, you're referring to parental notification, letting the parent know?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Yes. So, I'll simplify yes, but maybe summarize in later thoughts.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Okay. All right. So.
- Josh Newman
Person
Please. So, Ms. Chou.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
Just to address, Senator, your question about the Attorney General's statement in the Mirabelli case. So the Attorney General did say that the guidance issued by the California Department of Education is not binding, but that's true of all agency guidance.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
What the Attorney General did say is that the law that underlies the guidance, California's anti-discrimination law, California Constitution, that is what is enforceable. The Attorney General has issued a clarification to say that specifically. And so it's not true that the Attorney General has said that the CDE guidance is not enforceable.
- Josh Newman
Person
Briefly, Ms. Friday.
- Erin Friday
Person
They have said it four times. I have the court documents that the guidance is guidance and it's not mandated by law. We need to talk about actually what the constitution permits. Is there a privacy right between a child and a parent? Do children have a privacy right against their parents? They do not.
- Erin Friday
Person
And that's what the federal court said in the Mirabelli case, is that as between parents and children, there is no privacy right. So that is the Constitution of the United States. Also, the 14th amendment provides that parents get to care and custody and control of their children. So this law is unconstitutional as written.
- Erin Friday
Person
And this statement in the bill that says this is just declaratory of existing law is a falsehood. I would love for the author to talk about what law it is actually that permits and requires schools to lie to parents.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
If I may, the Regina case, I believe you're the lead plaintiff, did have a lower court dismiss the case finding under the US Constitution that a parent's rights were not violated. That is on appeal to the appellate court. So you can see the ambiguity right now at both the state and federal levels.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Yeah. And I was, you know, I was kind of curious. I was trying to look a little bit more, and I found this article, Landmark Court Decision Affirms Parental Rights in California, which it had really interesting points and in which it said, amongst other things, that, and this is where I'm going because I understand the intent of the bill, but the way that it's being formatted, I'm afraid that it's going to be found unconstitutional based on literally just the court findings that have been-- and I apologize if you folks see my watermarks here, but I spelled something on the paper.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
But the court-- So there's various court cases that we have right now on the federal level, but part of it, there's some that said the laws concepts of the family rest on the presumption that parents possess what a child lacks in maturity, experience, capacity for judgment required for making life's difficult decisions.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
It just goes on and on and talks about the parental rights superseding the child's rights on here. So I'm reading all of these, and there's just so much, so much already that's been decided upon federally, that states, based on the Supreme Court, that it talks--
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
And I'll be more than happy to share this with you afterwards of what I found, but it actually the parents rights supersedes that of the child, according to the federal cases. And I'll be happy to share with you just this printout that I have on there. So overall, I think we need to clarify that what we're trying to do when it comes to addressing our children's course is the fact that one, parents do need to know.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
I really, truly do believe, and I believe from my personal sphere of family and friends, dealing with these type of health issues, behavioral health issues, whatever you-- transition issues, sexuality.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
I can tell you that no parent, when their child is going through this and knows that there is a risk for suicide or that there has been suicide attempts, that those parents will not love that child regardless. They might not accept, but they will definitely respect their child.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
And I know this, I know, I know this from conversations with family members, friends that are going through this. And it might be right away, and there is anger for many, many parents.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
At first it might come out as anger, but I think a lot of it is that fear of what is going to come after, what they're going to be dealing with. So it's a very difficult issue. It really is. It's a very-- I wouldn't say difficult, it's a delicate issue, really is a delicate issue for parents.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
On that end, I just wanted to cover one last point here, and it has to do with the suicide component and why I think it's important. So we understand that there are elevated suicide risk for trans-identified youth. The figures go from 41% who have thought about suicide to 78% in last year's--
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Let's see, in last year's bill, AB 665 all the way to 87%, which was the figure from the Attorney General's complaint against the Chino Valley Hills. And what I beg to say is when we look at the suicide attempts, they usually don't happen at school. It happens usually privately at home or somewhere else.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
And this is one of the reasons why I feel it's imperative the parents do know. And once again, it's not regard to the whether or not you're gay. It's whether or not, you're experiencing gender dysphoria.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
And I think that's the most important part for me, is that if a child is, in fact, going through that, that parents do need to be notified so that they can be aware if there's anything that could take someone's life at home, whether it's medication or whether it's guns or whatever it may be.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
I think it's important for parents to be aware that that is available and that their child is going through this so that they can secure the home in order for those children to be safe and to really start having the conversations and the resources available for the families in order for them to be able to have and start those conversations.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
So there's components on the bill that I truly, truly support. But fundamentally, I think the biggest holdback for me is informing those parents immediately that their child-- not the fact that they're gay, I don't think many parents, you know, they might have problems, but the one of concern to me is the gender dysphoric, just because that one has medical possibilities that are more impactful. And so that's where I fundamentally can't support this bill today.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
But I understand the effort that you're trying to address today, and I hope I'm clear on that end and how sensitive I am to this subject at hand.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
And I hope, I hope that we can find more healing amongst both sides in trying to build relationships on both sides, that we're trying to work towards the betterment and the well-being of our children, rather than vilifying each other and trying to understand the other side viewpoints and concern.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
And I think that's just my seed that I'm going to plant today on that end, because we all, we all do care about our kids as they go through this stage in life. And with that, thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Ms. Chou, if it's about the law, do you want to add, please, clarification on the law?
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
Yeah, just to address something that Ms. Friday said. So it is true that under the Supreme Court, parents do have the right to care, custody and control of their children. That is one of the most fundamental rights in this country.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
However, the Supreme Court has also said that that right is not absolute and that governments are able to enact laws and policies that touch upon that right when there is a narrowly tailored and compelling government interest. And the Supreme Court has also found that the creation of a safe and welcoming school environment is a compelling government interest.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
So I just wanted to put that finer point on something that Ms. Friday said.
- Josh Newman
Person
Briefly. Go ahead. Go ahead, Ms. Hirst.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
Yeah. You know, I appreciate what the Senator was saying regarding parents. And so I wanted to just say that, you know, I am a parent and of course I'm involved and I think parents need to know and should know what's going on.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
This is not the way to find out because no matter how we feel as parents, the fact remains that when you forcibly out a child, it harms them. That's it. This is harmful.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
And I can tell you that I would not want my child forcibly outed to me because I know that's going to harm my relationship with my child. If my child is experiencing thoughts of suicide or struggling mentally, the school has policies in place that require them to notify me.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
So I know that my child is safe because if they're experiencing that, I will be informed. And finally, I just want to end by saying and pointing out that the Senator brought up increasing suicide ideology thoughts.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
And I have in my organization partnered with the Rainbow Youth Project USA and we have a crisis hotline for the State of California. And that was brought here when forced outing began. Since its implementation, that hotline has received over almost 1500 calls just from Chino Valley Unified School District. And these are from affirming homes, also, because these policies are harming all students.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
It is bringing dangerous situations because they are being mistreated when we see these policies being brought forth, they've also received almost 5000 calls from the State of California. Their number one call is that the student is in crisis because they feel their government hates them.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
Their government and their school board does not want them to exist. That is up from the year before the crisis reason being for fear of being forcibly outed. So when you see these increase in numbers, I can tell you that that is true for the State of California as well as their national numbers. The increase is due to these policies.
- Josh Newman
Person
Ms. Friday, you wanted to make a point of law and I'd ask you to keep it brief.
- Erin Friday
Person
Yes, about--
- Josh Newman
Person
We want to settle all of the questions around the actual law here today. Go ahead.
- Erin Friday
Person
So privacy is so important to understand. For a privacy right to exist, there needs to be an expectation of privacy. That's first and foremost.
- Erin Friday
Person
When a student tells everyone at school and all the teachers and all the administrators and all the students know that the child has taken on a transgender identity, then that privacy right is lost. It's gone. And the only person who doesn't know about the child's transgender status is the parent. That is not called a privacy right.
- Erin Friday
Person
And it is not permitted. So there is no privacy, right. When a child tells everyone, everyone. And that is true with sexual orientation, too.
- Erin Friday
Person
There is a case from the appellate court that says once the student talks about their sexual orientation or private issues and they've publicly announced it to the entire school, it is no longer private.
- Erin Friday
Person
So when a child tells everyone at the school to call them by a different name, use a different pronoun, treat them differently, that privacy right is gone. And the federal courts have found that to be true.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
If I may, because I actually have from personal experience, that is not true. Anybody's ability to be able to decide for themselves to whom and the time and the manner they choose to be able to disclose any part of their identity is theirs to own always.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
When you are a member of our community or you love somebody who is a member of our community, you've seen this play out not necessarily the first time. I had to come out in college, I had to come out again when I moved to a new community.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
I had to come out again when I returned to graduate school. And so just because I had disclosed to some in spaces of who I was did not mean that I had to be able to evaluate a new environment and decide on my own terms to whom I'm going to come out.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Outing is a deeply personal situation, and it is important for them to be able to retain control over that in any situation.
- Josh Newman
Person
Let me ask you a few questions, and we're going to move on, to first Assemblymember Ward. So, you know, the bill is about invalidating policies that require a school to notify a parent, right? But there's nothing about the bill that prevents a school from acting in the best interests otherwise of a child. Is that correct?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
That exists in today's law.
- Josh Newman
Person
Fair enough. And so I guess to the opposition's point, you know, what we're talking about is honoring the self expression of a child in the school environment versus, I think, the assertions been made here that certain school districts were taking an active role in the transition of a gender dysphoric kid. That's not at all what you have in mind with this legislation?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
That doesn't exist. Look, the school's obligation, and honestly, our obligation as state lawmakers is to make sure that all school districts have safe and supportive school environments with a common thread of guidance and financial support that allows them to be able to do just that.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And so anything as we saw, I'm glad that our witness was able to bring up, you know, just let it crystallize for a second, the fact that in one school district that started this off just last summer, that we've had more than 1500 calls to youth mental health crisis lines and just that narrow geography compared to 5000 statewide.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Now imagine if this is something that was a statewide policy, the number of students that would be in distress. It is this change last summer in injecting politics into local school boards that have actually caused more harm than good. So I agree.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
We have a lot that we agree on, and I know that you come from a really sincere and good place. And as a parent as well, I have a lot of faith in my kids. I think they're actually, you know, smarter than any of us give them credit for.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
But they're growing humans and they have to be able to evaluate a lot of these questions, and they should also be able to, I hope, know that I have a trusting environment, that they'd be able to bring these conversations back to the kitchen dinner table. And I, as a parent, invite those questions.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
So nothing I feel interferes with my parental obligations to be able to have those conversations. But I trust, and I would want our school districts to be able to focus on an environment that allows a student to thrive and succeed and excel at their academic attainment.
- Josh Newman
Person
And so, at least by inference, you know, you're describing or pointing to an opposite situation where a child does not feel comfortable bringing those conversations to their parent. And Senator Ochoa made the point, and I know it comes from the heart that all parents at some point are loving and will be accepting.
- Josh Newman
Person
But I think clearly that is not the experience among many children, which is precisely why they seek refuge and want that sanctuary that a school might provide them because they dont feel comfortable at home. So if you or one of the witnesses could speak to that. You may start.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
I will just say again, let's not say all. Most parents are loving and accepting. And actually, most of these conversations happen at home. There are a number of parents who may have anger or may have shock or may have to process a lot of feelings, and that's understandable.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And they do come around, as many of us have experienced, but there are many who are kicked out, who are ostracized. So you cannot say all. There's a healthy number, it's a very sad number of youth who are immediately expelled from that home environment.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And this is why our foster care system is disproportionately made up of members of the LGBTQ community. This is why those who transition out of those systems, 40% of youth who are on our streets identify as LGBTQ youth because there is a disproportionate effect on those youth who do not have a supportive environment.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
This is why the Trevor Project zone study show that 40% of youth do not feel they have a safe and supportive environment at home. Because maybe they've heard something. Maybe they've heard the way that parents talk about others, right? Not even realizing that it's somebody in your own orbit who you do love.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And that is the risk that they have to really walk. And sometimes you feel like talking to a student, a peer, or maybe even a teacher who you do trust is a gentle way to sort of test some waters about being accepted.
- Shay Stevens
Person
I also wanted to speak to the logistics of this. So, like, in theory, the policy that my school passed says that within 72 hours of noticing that a student is non gender-conforming, by choosing a new bathroom or asking to be called a different pronoun, we are to notify their parent.
- Shay Stevens
Person
Logistically, that is a nightmare, because how do we do that? And we're told we can send an email, we can make a phone call, or we can send a letter home.
- Shay Stevens
Person
I, as a parent, cannot imagine what it would be like to receive a letter in the mail from a teacher that says, I think your child is A, B, C, D for whatever reasons. I have no knowledge in how to deal with things like that.
- Shay Stevens
Person
I don't have the background, I don't have the capacity to understand this delicate topic. To write that letter home to a parent, the logistics there don't make sense. And asking us to do that puts us in a very precarious situation, not only with the student, but with the parents as well.
- Shay Stevens
Person
Because what if you get an angry parent that thinks that you're overstepping? Or what if that letter that you send home goes to an uncle or a friend or a grandparent who's not accepting? You don't know who's going to get the mail. You don't know who's going to get the email.
- Shay Stevens
Person
There are things that we are being asked to do that are absolutely unrealistic and the logistics of it are, in my opinion, cruel.
- Josh Newman
Person
I appreciate that. And Ms. Friday, I want to be clear. You're a technical witness for issues of law, is that correct? So is this about a matter of law or something else?
- Erin Friday
Person
Well, it's about the law, because the parental notification policy does not require a teacher who notices that a child is going by a different name to notify the parents. It's only if the student asks the school to participate in that social transitioning by calling them a different name, by changing records.
- Josh Newman
Person
But to be clear, that can take an informal form, right? Where there's no form that a student has to fill out, right. Student makes a request--let me finish--to a teacher, you know, that's a request to respect their self expression as opposed to naturally being a request to participate in their transition.
- Erin Friday
Person
The participation in the transition is when an adult agrees that you are born in the wrong body and that you are transgender and that you are actually a boy, that is--
- Josh Newman
Person
But an adult is not necessarily agreeing to that by simply according that child the respect of the self expression that goes with the preferred pronouns.
- Erin Friday
Person
I think the doctor can speak to what affirmation is.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
Not even remotely accurate. So when you say to a kid, oh, yeah, okay, Johnny, you're Sally now, from that kid's perspective--
- Josh Newman
Person
If the kid says, I'd like to be called Sally, and you say, okay, I'll call you Sally, that is not saying by any means that you are now Sally. It's simply saying, I will respect your right to self expression.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
No, it's not that simple, sir. When an adult figure, especially a teacher, starts playing into any, in any way into the perception of reality of the child, and that perception of reality is still under a great question, the child is going, oh-- they think black and white. The adult is saying x, they're buying into it.
- Josh Newman
Person
So how should we think about modes of play where a child wants to play dress up? It's a male child wants to wear female clothes.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
That's an entirely different situation.
- Josh Newman
Person
How's it different?
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
It's different because the child is-- That's taking place predominantly at a much younger age, when the child is exploring a lot of things, but it's not something where the child actually verbally says, I want you to start-- I think I'm a girl in a boy's body.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
And I'd like to speak to the point about this fear of parents. And this is 33 plus years of being a pediatrician and dealing with the Child Protective Services and taking care of hundreds of kids who have been abused in various ways, both physically and mentally.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
And I can tell you that the vast majority of the kids, even when I feel that they should be taken out of the home, are not taken out of the home because the CPS folks seem to think that in general, the parents are the better place for these kids.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
I've learned over time that in general, they tend to be compared to a lot of the foster situation. That's a wholly separate conversation, I got it. But the reason I bring that up is because this bill is cutting off the legs of parents who, the vast majority of times, care desperately about their kids, even when they are a little bit dysfunctional, the parents, I mean. And it's accurate to say suicide takes place in the home almost always.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
So if the parent doesn't know about this, if the parent is totally kept in the dark over what's going on. Yeah, the kid is at far more risk. And oh, by the way, the kids who start doing this transition are far more likely to enter the medical parts and the surgical parts.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
And the only, giving the devil's advocate to the folks who think this is a good idea, the only justification that was ever really brought up that said, oh, we should probably do this is to prevent suicide. And now we see that's not happening.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
In fact, the people who are going through this transition are more likely to commit suicide as adults. And that's the reason that the Dutch closed these and the UK closed these and nearly all of Europe has closed this.
- Josh Newman
Person
Doctor, that's fine, that's fine. But I think--
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
No, that's a huge deal.
- Josh Newman
Person
I'm saying I appreciate your testimony. I'm not saying it is fine. I think we're to get to a point of kind of diminishing returns here. Very, very briefly.
- Aurora Regino
Person
Yeah. I just wanted to bring up the fact of a not what if situation. This situation happened in our family, and my daughter was 11 and she was confused and they kept it a secret from me. And what happened with her was it actually made her more confused and more damaging.
- Aurora Regino
Person
And everybody talks about, you know, the bullying. Well, she was bullied at school with no support at home, and she was loved the most by us and she wasn't even, she was keeping a secret from us.
- Josh Newman
Person
She kept a secret from you, right. And this is really the operative question. Assemblymember, which is, you know, there is at least you can infer a reason or a basis for a child keeping a secret for a time from their parents about their preferred--
- Aurora Regino
Person
Children keep secrets all the time. Sometimes they sneak a cookie, you know, and it doesn't mean that you're a bad parent because of that.
- Josh Newman
Person
That's not a comparable situation. So this is the question, right? I guess, and I have a question for Dr. Lorimier, is I think you can make the distinction, I believe, and I believe that's what the legislation is trying to do, between respect for self expression and identity versus active participation in gender transition.
- Josh Newman
Person
So what's a line that shouldn't be crossed for you, Doctor, in a school environment? Is it simply not recognizing the preferred pronoun or is it something beyond that?
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
When an adult in a position of authority is clearly buying into the perception that the child is the different gender that is crossing a line. Now, how that is manifest on a day-to-day basis is real difficult to pin down in any situation.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
I can just tell you from my own experience after taking care of hundreds of kids, now thousands of kids, that when a teacher, even the teachers they don't like, agreed to a certain mode of perception of reality, the kids start saying, oh, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I must be right about this.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
Instead of an adult taking the time to say, hey, Johnny, what's going on?
- Josh Newman
Person
But again, there's nothing about this legislation that prevents the teacher from having that conversation.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
No, no, there's not. But the thing is there is in this legislation, preventive of the teacher actually recognizing this is going a little too far. I need to tell mom and dad what's going on.
- Josh Newman
Person
But that teacher, in sort of conversing with the student, could secure that student's permission to talk to a parent under this legislation. What this bill, as I understand it does is it prohibits the blanket requirement of notification in that instance of-- Right, so, Ms. Hirst? Okay, good.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
I know you asked me a question about, you know, kids being out of their homes. And I first want to start off by saying that through my work with the crisis hotline, we have had children in the State of California this past year who are kicked out and homeless because of being outed at home.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
So I do want to make that point. I also wanted to state that if a child is struggling mentally and in harm or being bullied, those are situations where parents are notified. That exists outside of the privy of this policy and of itself. That's already a policy that exists.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
And parents absolutely have the right to be involved in that. And they are. And I just, it is my understanding the doctor told the National Catholic Register he's a pediatric gastroenterologist who does not specialize in gender-affirming care. So I think that taking what he's saying is maybe not-- I have concerns about some of the treatment.
- Josh Newman
Person
You're the opposition witness. We'll give you all the respect that you're due as the witness, but understood.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
Can I just make a point about that? First of all, the idea that a child can trust what a parent is going to say, or what a school board is going to say is a real big question. Okay. When they talk to an adult, and they reveal something to them that is in some way potentially harmful, they--
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
We, as adults, need to make decisions about kids all the time, and I don't believe for a moment that schools are going to rethink or think logically, necessarily, and particularly about the bullying issue. You know, we've all been through schools here. I've been through public school here.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
Plenty of people in here have been through the public schools and private schools, and I've never seen a kid getting bullied, very seldomly seeing a kid getting bullied, who any of the administrators or teachers talked about it. They don't talk about it. And these kids--
- Josh Newman
Person
I'm not sure. What's the point you're making here?
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
The point I'm making is that to say that they're instructed to inform anybody that the kid is getting bullied, that's a nice thing to say, but in reality, that doesn't happen.
- Josh Newman
Person
Again, separate policy, separate conversation about bullying. And I think the evidence is quite clear that LGBTQ and transgender kids do, in fact, get bullied whether or not you see it.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
--that the school board is going to be in the best position to report that, or the school, the teachers, whoever, they frequently fail a lot of the time.
- Josh Newman
Person
That doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to better than that. Only on a question of law.
- Erin Friday
Person
Question of law. So what everyone seems to be missing is currently, almost at every school district, there's a policy called AR 5145.3. And this policy requires that schools keep a transgender student's transgender identity secret unless the student says that it's okay to reveal it.
- Erin Friday
Person
So it is the child that is making the decision, the child who could be 4,5,6, the child who could be suicidal, the child who could have other mental health issues. The child is the one dictating whether this is revealed.
- Erin Friday
Person
However, everyone at the school knows except for the parents, the parents who are the only ones who are able to keep them safe. And Aurora's daughter was told by the school to lie to her about her transgender status, to lie to her own mother. That's what happens at the school.
- Josh Newman
Person
Okay. And that may have happened in that instance, but I'm not sure that's what always happens. Ms. Hirst, very quickly, I know you have something you want to add.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
I know we're talking a lot about kids perspectives, and since there's not a child here, I'd like to read an excerpt from a student's perspective shared in this building.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
Earlier this month, Kai said, "had I not had a single supportive adult in my life, [his teacher], I never would have been able to find the strength to come out to my family or teach them what I had learned about who I am.Without a supportive adult, I would not have had my supportive parents beside me here today."
- Kristi Hirst
Person
And what these policies really end up doing and what we saw in Chino Valley, is that the students who need the most support actually then closet themselves and they are unable to seek support.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
They are unable to come to the support of adults in their life and teachers and let them know they are being bullied for their gender identity and their transgender status because out of fear that then they will be forcibly outed. And so we are isolating these kids who need our help the most.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
And I think I would hope everyone in this room, no matter how we feel, we can set that aside and look at the facts. And the fact is, when you forcibly out kids, we prevent them from getting help and support, and it is harmful. The data shows it over and over, repeatedly.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
And families that are affirming do not want these policies because we know that when our child is forcibly outed, it is harmful to them and it harms our relationship.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
And as a mom, of course I want my kids to come to me, and I try to ensure that will happen by open communication with my teachers, with the school, and with my children, explicitly letting them know that I will love and accept them no matter what.
- Kristi Hirst
Person
I speak positively about LGBTQIA issues, and I know that when they come to me, it'll be done in a healthy, communicating, supportive way.
- Josh Newman
Person
So let me ask-- Briefly.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
This has to do with the point about being a pediatric gastroenterologist. In that role, a big chunk of the kids I take care of are adolescents who have bellyaches, who I need to do a big differential and workup on for their bellyache.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
And a majority of them are otherwise abnormal kids physiologically, who are neurotic and upset and anxious. And I've seen, over the course of just the last three years, a huge increase in the number of these kids being trans-identifying female adolescents who often will be coming into my office. And this isn't just a one off.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
I've seen a bunch of these kids like this. They're dressed in real bulky clothes, oversized. And when you really get into talking with them at length and you get to know them over time, they just want to be a little girl again, and they don't want to be seen because they've had too many advances from nefarious adults.
- Arthur de Lorimier
Person
And the flip side is true. I've had kids like this who come into my office, who are trying to find a way to be a different sex because they don't give the attention that they want in the given sex, and it has nothing to do with whether they're transgender.
- Josh Newman
Person
I appreciate your point, but the real question here is what happens at school, right? So, Assemblymember Ward I guess there's been a lot of discussion around gender dysphoria, but the point was also made that unfortunately, because of these policies, LGBTQ or questioning kids get caught up in this and are forced to be outed as part of it.
- Josh Newman
Person
Is there any way that would you make a distinction, like within the legislation, between the gender dysphoria portion versus simply respecting a kid's sort of evolving sexual identity? I mean, I assume you can't, but how do we think about that?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Let's be clear, because we've gone down a tangent, a related tangent, but that's not what this bill does.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
It is not about gender dysphoria and it is not about medical decisions. That is covered in separate conversation and is very also clear in today's law in California, this is about harmful policies and when we are going to have a local district policy which forcibly is outing students and it furthermore, and I think to some of these points as well, actually is proactive in its way to be able to provide district resources that really take that conversation out of the classroom.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Referrals for parents, guardians, families, and students to support groups, safe spaces, reference to anti-bullying and harassment policies, counseling services. These are appropriate interventions and support networks that aren't necessarily for the classroom, for the teacher to be able to do their job, and that is to teach the subjects for which their job is directed. So I just-
- Chris Ward
Legislator
I don't want to distract, I think, the core obligation of this legislation from what it is intending to do, separate from other questions that I know intersections with this population.
- Josh Newman
Person
And I appreciate that. And I'm glad you brought us back to the purpose of this legislation. And so, Senator Wilk, go ahead.
- Scott Wilk
Person
Thank you, Mister Chair. First of all, I appreciate our conversation yesterday, and I appreciate the way that you're handling this. And you already know that I'm not going to be supportive, and these may be bad or rogue school districts, but I think parental, in my view, parental rights trumps bad policy there.
- Scott Wilk
Person
It's much easier to change school board members. I mean, if we got judged on the job we do as policymakers, we should all be out of here because we've not done a good job for California. But that's aside. So this is going to become lost. I know that.
- Scott Wilk
Person
So I just was reading through the bill last night, so I just got a couple sections I want to read, and then just so I have it on the record. And I think you're going to know, I'm not trying to-- You're going to have answers to all this.
- Scott Wilk
Person
I just want to kind of get it on the record. So I'm going to read the section and then ask the question. So in Section 2 (k)(1), it states "teachers and school staff can provide crucial support to LGBTQ+ young people and play an important role in encouraging them to seek out appropriate resources and support."
- Scott Wilk
Person
So a couple questions. So, under the bill, if an elementary school, because we've already identified that it could start kindergarten up, if an elementary school student identified as questioning and said they didn't want their parents to know and wanted to learn more about gender identity and potentially transitioning, what would an educational provider be required to do to comply with that law?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
So the subsection that you had referenced is part of our findings and declarations which establishes, you know, we know how to write a bill. And, yes, it's just an affirmative statement that it's not exclusionary of other statements as well, that teachers and students and staff can provide crucial support to young people.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And so to your question, what would the direction, that I think references also is highlighted in the analysis, a teacher to be able to do. And that is to be able to access resources that are regularly updated, which are able to be able to provide for serving pupils in grades 7 through 12, a menu of options that provides for support groups, safe spaces, existing policies like anti-bullying, harassment, suicide prevention policies, counseling services, a gamut of options that can come with that.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
So, again, they can be able to decide for themselves and hopefully, hopefully take that home to the parents and have these conversations.
- Scott Wilk
Person
Right. Well, you and I have already talked about. I know, because I know you're a great parent, and I know you and your spouse and I haven't met your kids, but I'm sure that they're great. And we know that vast majority of parents love their kids and be very supportive, and there is some that aren't.
- Scott Wilk
Person
And so sometimes I think we penalize the 97% that are good to go after the 3% who are bad. So I got just one other question as it relates. So, under the federal Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, parents have an absolute right to access any and all public records related to their child.
- Scott Wilk
Person
So under FERPA, would parents be entitled to access information regarding the child's gender identity and pronouns?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
I do have a response for that. Can you read the-- Read it again?
- Scott Wilk
Person
So under federal law, parents have an absolute right to access all the information. So would they have access to that?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Yes. Under FERPA, they have access to school records.
- Scott Wilk
Person
So if the school, if the student changed their identity or whatever, is the school district obligated to put that in the official records?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Any official record say, and I think that would include medical say at the school nurse's office, anything that is a record would be eligible under FERPA.
- Scott Wilk
Person
Appreciate that. Again, I'm not going to be able to support you today because just conceptually, I think it goes too far. But I really appreciate the dialogue we've had and the way you conduct yourself and trying to bring the temperature down, because these are, as you know, sensitive issues.
- Scott Wilk
Person
So I just appreciate you, but just can't be there with you today.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. And let me also point out, Senator Wilk had a bill earlier this year that would ensure that parents had access, or everyone has access to instruction materials that are provided by school.
- Scott Wilk
Person
I'm sure it's going to get killed in the Assembly.
- Josh Newman
Person
I was happy to vote for it. And so we're going to wrap up here, and let me say I want to honor the sort of assertion by all of the participants that the parents do love their kids and they want the best for their kids.
- Josh Newman
Person
And that's kind of the irony here, that this bill is not really intended for those parents who have a relationship with those kids that allows for that sort of free and loving exchange information.
- Josh Newman
Person
This is a very different situation where students, children do not have that comfort and find in school the only place where they can actually sort of exercise and affirm their gender identity at that time in their lives, which is a challenging time.
- Josh Newman
Person
And so it's for those kids who are going through, you know, an awkward and very excruciating time that I think this bill is necessary. And there is, as I understand, there's nothing about this bill that prevents a school or teachers from acting in the best interests of those children.
- Josh Newman
Person
It's, we're trying to ensure a situation where we don't require, as a blanket matter, schools to insert themselves in a way that's inappropriate, that may inflame those tensions at home. And so with that, this is clearly a big deal. Ms. Friday?
- Erin Friday
Person
What FERPA and the way it works in the real world because I am a licensed attorney. And so when my daughter came out as a transgender child, I did a FERPA request to test the school to see if the school would lie to me one more time.
- Erin Friday
Person
I requested under FERPA all of my daughter's records, and I knew that they were calling her by a male name and using male pronouns, and I did not receive one of those records.
- Erin Friday
Person
And I work with hundreds of parents and I tell them to send the same FERPA request, and they know that their child is being called by a different name, and they never get those records. I guarantee you they never get those records because they create a secret file that is held in an administrator's office, so they keep that information secret from parents.
- Josh Newman
Person
So let me-- That's fair. So Assemblymember Ward, does this bill allow for a school to keep a secret file or otherwise not adhere--
- Chris Ward
Legislator
No, that's blasphemy. This law does not supersede FERPA. Right, state laws do not supersede federal laws. We understand this, and I'm sorry. If there was a record they did not provide for you, then you probably have grounds to be able to challenge them further on that, but they should have provided you all of the records that existed.
- Josh Newman
Person
Is there anything implicit in your bill that would encourage a school not to adhere?
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Absolutely not.
- Josh Newman
Person
Fair enough. So, having said that, you know this conversation, and I've given it a very deliberate kind of long leash because I think it's important that we hear both sides and we hear it fully, and I think we have today, and I appreciate the input of both the support witnesses, the opposition witnesses, and all the members of the public here.
- Josh Newman
Person
I will be supporting the bill today, and I hope that we will continue sort of working on these conversations to the satisfaction of all parties. And so with that, Assemblymember, if you'd like to close.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Senators, I want to thank you for your time this morning for a very important issue. I know that the conversation does need to continue, and because there are a lot of related points that are worthy of consideration, that this deserves to be able to continue. So I'm grateful for your attention this morning.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
The fact of the matter is, over the last year, we have seen an explosion of unrest and ultimately harmful policies across our state.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
I want to also highlight and thank our State Superintendent of Public Instruction, who went right down to Chino Valley and was forcibly evicted from that school district's conversation, unable to be able to contribute as our lead, as our lead for the Department of Education.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Our Attorney General, who has, through his leadership, been able to show a testing of a lot of these important questions as well. And some of those are not fully resolved through our legal system. But where this brings us here today is an affirmation that I think on several fronts.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
One, much of the court discussion has been upholding, I think, superior elements of the law that respect the right to privacy and really try to de-emphasize, I think, the politicization of a lot of this policymaking. Two, we've got to remember that nothing in this bill actually prevents parents from having that conversation with their children.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And that should be done in a time and a place in a manner that is appropriate to them as well so they can have a sense of conversation. I encourage them to have those conversations.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And if a child is expressing any confusion or question or just, you know, how their development is going, I would hope that they would love them unconditionally.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Third, it makes sure that through all of this politicization and local district noise that we're seeing, that we're just getting back to where we were a few years ago, which is allowing teachers to teach and be able to provide a safe and supportive environment in which to thrive.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
Because when that doesn't happen, and that our own research is showing those students that are feeling that they don't have a safe and support environment are less likely to continue on to higher education, more likely of harm to themselves.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And the spiral effect downward, I think, is showing in the number of youth that we see on our streets and those that are having mental health challenges as young adults and even latent effects into full adulthood.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
So for all of these reasons, I believe that the safety act as we provided here today is well grounded not just in its conceptual principle and what some of us feel are best approaches, but also in the data that we've seen over the last 12 months as this has exploded in our, in some home communities.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And so for that I ask that you let the conversation continue to be able to work on some of these issues. I am always revisiting my own legislation to make sure that we are getting this right.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And I'm willing and open to be able to think about some of the deep and fundamental questions that especially this bill, but any of my pieces of legislation work on. But there are principles, and I think those are much data driven for me that we have to draw a line on.
- Chris Ward
Legislator
And ultimately this is about protecting our youth. And that's why I've introduced this here today. And I'm grateful for your consideration. I respectfully ask for your aye vote.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. And I know we had a motion from what seems like a very long time ago, from Senator Glazer. And with that, Madam, please call the roll.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File item one, AB 1955 Ward. Motion is due passed to the Senate Health Committee. [Roll call]
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure now has four votes for, one against. We'll leave it open for the absent members, member. And with that, thank you to everybody who participated today. We're going to take a short recess. I'm not sure you all want to stay for Assemblymember Holden's bill. Although you should. He does excellent legislation. Thank you, everybody.
- Josh Newman
Person
The normal order of business here. We welcome now to the podium Assembly Member Holden. Thank you for your patience, sir. You might have wished you didn't show up on time. We're glad to have you here. And you'll be presenting AB 359 and you may proceed when ready.
- Chris Holden
Person
First of all, thank you Mister Chair and Committee Members, for giving me an opportunity to present AB 359, which is a phase one of dual enrollment reform. I'd like to thank the Committee and the Chair for working with my staff and coming up with additional amendment that we're happy to accept and I appreciate the collaboration.
- Chris Holden
Person
AB 359 consists of policy recommendations from dual enrollment advocates that were presented at last year's Assembly Higher Education oversight hearing. This Bill makes necessary changes to existing law to ensure the success of CCAP by making it more accessible to every student to participate.
- Chris Holden
Person
The evidence is overwhelming just how impactful and equitable CCAP is at improving college readiness for our students. CCAP students are more likely than others to graduate high school and earn college degrees.
- Chris Holden
Person
It has always been my intention since the introduction of AB 288 in 2015 to allow schools the flexibility to prepare their students for the workforce and for four year universities. This Bill builds on great work CCAP has accomplished by eliminating barriers faced by underrepresented students, local education agencies, and community college districts.
- Chris Holden
Person
AB 359 provides clarifying changes and establishes a framework to integrate pathways into every CCAP partnership. Specifically, AB 359 does the streamline student enrollment and participation in CCAP by removing the principal's recommendation and requiring students to complete one application. Allow schools to partner with community colleges outside of their service area if certain conditions are met.
- Chris Holden
Person
Provide schools with the opportunity to teach courses online with appropriate student support in place, and ensure students receive credit for the courses they complete on their unique pathway. With me to testify and support are Celeste Lopez, former CCAP participant and current college student, and Carol Gonzalez, legislative advocate with Education Trust West. I respectfully ask for your aye vote.
- Josh Newman
Person
And your witnesses. Welcome to both of you. Please proceed when ready. You have three minutes each.
- Celeste Lopez
Person
Good morning, Chair and Members. My name is Celeste Lopez and I am a sophomore. Is it working? zero, it was. Yeah.
- Josh Newman
Person
Just. Yeah. Bring the mic just a little bit closer, Miss Lopez. You're good. That doesn't count against your three minutes. Nope.
- Celeste Lopez
Person
Good morning, Taren Members. My name is Celeste Lopez and I am a sophomore majoring in political science at Sac City with future goals of going to law school to become a lawyer. I participated in the CCAP dual enrollment program the first year it was introduced at Davis Senior High as a junior in 2022.
- Celeste Lopez
Person
Given the only limited variety of courses was available, I only managed to take seven courses across my remaining high school years. When I first heard about the CCAP program, it honestly seems like an opportunity too good to be true.
- Celeste Lopez
Person
As someone whose goal was always to pursue my education while equally wanting to do so in the most financially efficient way, the opportunity to take college courses and receive transferable units at no cost seemed incredible. Even still, the dual enrollment program offers so much more to students than a more attainable pathway to college.
- Celeste Lopez
Person
The HSI team at my school went above and beyond to ensure that I was never alone in the application process. Once I was ready to transfer to Sac City and reassuring that I felt secure in knowing that help was only a phone call away.
- Celeste Lopez
Person
My college journey would not have been as smooth and as easy had I not gotten acclimated directly because of the program. In trying to find something negative about dual enrollment, the only thing that comes to mind is disappointment that I did not have this opportunity since I was a first year student in high school.
- Celeste Lopez
Person
As I know the enormous possibilities and influence this would have had on youth across California in their academic dreams as well as mine, Assembly Bill 359 would only help reinforce the life changing pathway the CCAP dual enrollment program would offer, especially to those facing financial challenges in pursuing their education.
- Celeste Lopez
Person
There is never a downside to providing the opportunity and path to those whose educational dreams of success seem far reaching. For these reasons, I absolutely support Assembly Bill 359 and hope it resonates with you. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please welcome.
- Carol Gonzalez
Person
Hi, good morning Chair Newman and Members. My name is Carol Gonzalez and I'm here on behalf of Education Trust West, a research and advocacy organization committed to advancing policies and practices that dismantle the racial and economic barriers embedded in our California Education System.
- Carol Gonzalez
Person
In a landmark report, Jumpstart Ed, trustwest analyzes dual enrollment data and finds that local education agencies and community colleges are not yet equitably serving black, native, and latinx students. Through dual enrollment, education leaders and policy makers have an opportunity to reimagine how strategies like dual enrollment can transform our system and students lives.
- Carol Gonzalez
Person
Therefore, strategies to increase dual enrollment access and participation must center on the needs of these students and families. College and career access pathways, or CCAP partnerships, aim to provide early exposure to college courses for students who may not be college bound or are underrepresented in higher education.
- Carol Gonzalez
Person
AB 359 will make it easier for LEA's and community college districts to develop partnership agreements and expand expand course offerings, an essential first step towards improving access.
- Carol Gonzalez
Person
We are particularly excited about the student friendly amendments that eliminate the requirement of the principal recommendation, clarify that students should only submit one application for their participation, and enable colleges to offer courses only to high school students at college campuses, high school, or online modalities.
- Carol Gonzalez
Person
We also appreciate that AB 359 prohibits from offering pre transfer coursework through CCAP and enhances students access to college level coursework. These challenges, these changes, sorry. These changes will ensure that CCAP partnerships are aligned and engaged with statewide efforts to phase out remedial education.
- Carol Gonzalez
Person
With that, I want to thank Assembler Holden for being a steadfast champion over the last few years and committed to getting CCAP program right since its inception in 2015. We greatly appreciate your diligence working with stakeholders, advocates, Committee staff to address dual enrollment student needs and challenges.
- Carol Gonzalez
Person
It's our goal to make CCAP a reality for every student and to ensure they get a jump start for their education, just like Celeste and how she shared with us today. And with that, I respectfully ask for an aye vote. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. And thank you both for your testimony. Are there any other Members of the public who'd like to come forward in support of this measure? So please come to the microphone, state your name, your organization, your position on the measure.
- Diana Vu
Person
Diana Vu, on behalf of the Association of California School Administrators and support, thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Sara Bachez
Person
Good morning. Sara Bachez with Children Now in support.
- Samara Palko
Person
Good morning. Samara Palko with the California Catholic Conference in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next, please.
- Anna Ioakimedes
Person
Good morning. Anna Ioakimedes on behalf of Los Angeles Unified School District in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Dominique Donette
Person
Good morning. Dominique Donette with EdVoice in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Maria Morales
Person
Good morning. Maria Morales, on behalf of Hispanas Organized for Political Equality in support, thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Adam Keigwin
Person
Good morning. Adam Keigwin on behalf of the Television Academy foundation and the California Charter Schools Association in support.
- Stella Johnson
Person
Good morning. Stella Johnson, on behalf of the Association of Career and College Readiness Organizations and Small School District Associations, in support, thank you.
- Bella Kern
Person
Bella Kern, on behalf of Pasadena City College in support, thank you.
- Sean O'Neill
Person
Good morning. Sean O'Neill, Director of dual enrollment for Los Rios Community College District in support thank you.
- Nayeli Chaidez
Person
Good morning. Nayeli Chaidez, Sacramento City College Hispanic Serving Institution Early College Program and support thank you.
- Brendan Amberman
Person
Brendan Amberman, student support specialist on behalf of Sacramento City College and support, thank you.
- Sam Nasher
Person
Hello. Sam Nasher, on behalf of the Los Angeles County Office of Education and support, thank you.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
Good morning. Carl Rodriguez Veltran, on behalf of the campaign for college opportunity, and we're in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you very much. Let's now go to opposition. Is there anybody here who'd like to speak in opposition to the measure? Seeing none, let's come back to. zero, please. Sorry.
- Tiffany Mock
Person
Tiffany Mock. On behalf of CFT, I just wanted to thank the author for the continued discussions. We hope that the program exists as exactly as the outstanding witness had discussed.
- Tiffany Mock
Person
And so we want to make sure there's just a few more things we're looking over to ensure that every child has the quality access to these outstanding programs that we heard in the testimony.
- Josh Newman
Person
Can I register you as a tweener? Yes. Okay. Very good.
- Tiffany Mock
Person
Thank you.
- Kristal Padilla
Person
Hello, Chair, Members, Kristal Padilla with the Community College League of California. I'm here on behalf of our chief Executive officers of California Community Colleges Board on an opposed and less amended position. We greatly appreciate the author for engaging with us as we work through our position and concerns.
- Kristal Padilla
Person
More specifically, we look forward to working on the format of the request letter, the recipient of the request letter, and establishing a length on the CKAM agreement outside of the service area. Again, we look forward to working with the author and our board as we reach a collaborative agreement. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you very much. Let us now come back to the dais colleagues. Any questions or comments? Senator Ochoa Bogh
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
Welcome. Thank you for this Bill. I'm very excited for it. I been an advocate. I just have one question, which it's always been kind of at the edge of my mind for many years.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
When you do the dual enrollment and you graduate from the program, are you technically a, do you receive a high school diploma or do you receive a college diploma? How does that work?
- Chris Holden
Person
Well, it depends on how many credits that you're able to accumulate during your time in high school. As was pointed out, if you take the, you start the program in your junior year or senior year, then you're probably not going to be able to get as many. It's 15 credits per semester. Per year.
- Chris Holden
Person
And so for, as an example, there are eight students in the Pasadena Unified School District this year who will graduate with their AA degree, in addition to their college, their high school diploma. So you get both right. And so they start based on the amount of credits that are applicable to the University that they would be attending.
- Chris Holden
Person
They could potentially start as a second year or first year junior.
- Rosilicie Ochoa Bogh
Legislator
I love this program. I'm grateful for this Bill, and I'll be happy to move it when appropriate.
- Josh Newman
Person
Appreciate that. For my part, I appreciate the Bill as well. Grateful for you accepting the amendment. What that amendment also does is it aligns it with the Bill that I have, SB 1244 which is substantially similar. Yours probably has some more features. May the best Bill win anything that's. Got it for good of the cause.
- Josh Newman
Person
I appreciate that, and I'm glad it supported, and I will say of dual enrollment, the most important thing, and I think Miss Lopez touched on it, is what it gives to students, especially those students who might otherwise not have realized how far their path might take them.
- Josh Newman
Person
So that exposure to higher ed that you can get during high school is so important to help with attainment and graduation in high school, but more importantly, to give young people a chance to at least see their possibilities. So I thank you, Miss Lopez, for being here.
- Josh Newman
Person
You're a terrific example of what dual enrollment can do with that. Would you like to close?
- Chris Holden
Person
You know, this is, this is my last year in the Legislature, so 12 years of writing a variety of different types of bills. This was one of the first that I wrote when I became a Legislator, and it's one of the last.
- Chris Holden
Person
And the whole idea was to establish a foundation, which CCAP does, to allow for these students to really get the most out of their experience in high school and prepare for their future. As we've noticed as time has gone on, there were DACA students who were not included, so we wrote a Bill to include them.
- Chris Holden
Person
There were court students who were not included, so we wrote a Bill to include them. So this has always been an evolution of meeting the needs and creating flexibility. And as the.
- Chris Holden
Person
And I don't want to refer to the opposition as opposition, I hope that they would consider themselves tweeners as well, because I've yet to have opposition on any dual enrollment Bill, because at the end of the day, we're looking at creating new horizons for young people who maybe didn't see themselves as college prepared or being the first in their family to, you know, to get over that hurdle.
- Chris Holden
Person
And so when you're able to work in an environment like this, I heard it referred to earlier and previous hearing that we don't get a lot of good things done or worse to that effect here in the Legislature. I beg to differ. I think that we do a lot of important things, and this is one of them.
- Chris Holden
Person
And I'm excited about this Committee and it's allowing the Bill to move forward today.
- Chris Holden
Person
But I also recognize this is a Bill that will continue to evolve as the years and decades unfold and meet the needs of a growing and more participatory, diverse group of students who will see and hear from others, who will come back and tell them how valuable it's been that they can really have an opportunity to achieve their highest goals.
- Chris Holden
Person
And so I thank this Committee for your efforts in support of this Bill. I respectfully asked for your. I vote. Appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Madam consultant, we had a motion from Senator Choa Bogue and madam consultant, please call the roll.
- Committee Secretary
Person
Roll Call
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure has five votes. Four is it. Five has five votes. We'll keep it open for absent Members. Thank you very much. Next Assembly Member Pacheco, welcome. You'll be presenting AB 1160, and we look forward to hearing from you whenever you're ready.
- Josh Newman
Person
Please proceed.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
Thank you. I think it's still morning, but good morning, Mr. Chair and Members of the Committee. I am here to present Assembly Bill 1160. The bill you see today reflects months of conversations with opposition and good faith attempts to address concerns and provide clarity on the bill's intent.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
This bill aims to protect students from the educational and economic harms associated with institutional debt, while preserving essential tools for colleges to collect debt and maintain revenue streams. It is important to note that AB 1160 does not cancel institutional debt nor require institutions of higher education to cancel such debt.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
It does not allow students to enroll in a college for free, nor does it absolve students from their responsibilities to pay their institutional debt. AB 1160 will grant students a one time grace period where they can re-enroll in their coursework and make progress towards their degree while they work to get back on track and repay their institutional debt. To benefit from the grace period, students need to be able to pay for the term they're enrolling in and must enter a payment plan for their past debt if they want to continue enrolling after the grace period.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
This bill establishes safeguards on the use of for profit third party debt collection, requiring schools to wait 180 days before subjecting students to collections or reporting negative marks on their credit reports. The bill also requires schools to communicate to students the significant financial consequences of being subject to collections.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
These provisions will help ensure that students have the same debt collection protections that are afforded to Californians with medical and other debts under California law. Additionally, AB 1160 provides more time for schools to build out data reporting systems to ensure they have the resources and capacity to adequately collect and report data on institutional debt.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
The institutional debt crisis has gone under the radar for far too long. According to the most recently available data, more than 750,000 low income students owe more than 390 million in debt to California public colleges. We can and we must do more to protect students across our state, and AB 1160 will do just that.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
The bill today is a compromise, and I believe it will benefit students and colleges alike. And I have here two witnesses in support. I have Celene Aridin, current UC Davis student who serves as the President of the University of California Student Association. And also we have Professor Charlie Eaton, Associate Professor of Sociology at UC Merced. And I'll pass it on over to them.
- Josh Newman
Person
So, Ms. Aridin. Correct?
- Celene Aridin
Person
Yes, correct.
- Josh Newman
Person
Please proceed. Welcome. You have three minutes.
- Celene Aridin
Person
Awesome. Hello. My name is Celene Aridin. Thank you for the warm introduction. I'm a student at UC Davis, and I also serve as the President of the UC Student Association where we represent the 230,000 plus undergraduate students throughout the state. And we are a proud co-sponsor of AB 1160.
- Celene Aridin
Person
Institutional debt is a major problem for students across all California higher education segments. While the institutional debt crisis is not new, it was exacerbated by the Covid-19 pandemic. Over this same time, our state has been facing an enrollment crisis. Institutional debt bars many people from returning to school and achieving their higher education dreams.
- Celene Aridin
Person
It can also have serious long term implications for a student's future, whether that be their future employment due to diploma withholding or hurting their credit score, which takes years to rebuild. Many times these debts come up unexpectedly for students without time for them to correct the issue, as in the case of Anna, a student who was just two semesters away from earning her degree at Cal State Dominguez Hills.
- Celene Aridin
Person
Anna had been working diligently towards her goal for many years, and her dedication was a source of pride and excitement for her family. However, when her husband suffered a stroke, Anna made the difficult decision to drop her courses immediately to be by his side.
- Celene Aridin
Person
This decision, although necessary, resulted in significant institutional debt that then triggered an enrollment ban on her account, which has prevented her from returning to complete her education. Anna's story is a painful example of how life's unforeseen circumstances can derail even the most determined students, burdening them with debt and disrupting their educational journey.
- Celene Aridin
Person
In the case of a UC student, one of my fellow UC Davis students, Ava, was dropped from all her courses and had to reapply for financial aid and scramble for new courses after the quarter had begun due to just a $3 debt from a drink she forgot she had purchased on her school account.
- Celene Aridin
Person
These situations highlight the critical need for AB 1160, and passing AB 1160 would be a significant step in supporting students like Anna and Ava, ensuring they have opportunity to overcome life's challenges and achieve their educational goals without being derailed.
- Celene Aridin
Person
It is also important to note that institutional debt disproportionately affects low income students, who are also more likely to belong to racially marginalized communities. At UCs, nearly one third of undergraduates are the first in their families to attend college, and nearly half of UC's students are from underrepresented communities.
- Celene Aridin
Person
In addition, half of UC undergraduates receive the Pell Grant, indicating their financial need. The UC prides itself as a leader in social mobility, with multiple campuses receiving national recognition from publications such as US News and World Report and the Wall Street Journal. This critical mobility is hampered when institutional debt prevents a student from completing their degree.
- Celene Aridin
Person
There is a major need for legislation like AB 1160 to ensure that students are not only able to enroll in our institutions but also finish their degrees. As you deliberate this bill, I urge you to consider Anna's story and Ava's to help address the state's enrollment crisis and improve graduation rates. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Next please. Professor Eaton.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair and Members of the Committee. I'm an Economic Sociologist and Professor at University of California Merced, where I co-founded the Higher Education, Race, and the Economy Lab. Our lab co-authored the Creditor Colleges study of institutional student debt with UC Irvine Law Professor Dalié Jiménez and UC Berkeley Law Professor Jonathan Glater. Institutional debts work differently than student loans, and they tend to be more harmful. We estimate that 300,000 mostly low income California students incur these debts in an average year.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
Currently, only around 25% of these debts are ever repaid because students lack the means. AB 1160 will help thousands of these students to complete their education, as you just heard, and it will also help our higher education segments to bring in additional revenue to serve students.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
Here's why. Most students incur institutional debts when they withdraw from school in the middle of an academic term because of a health or economic hardship. Schools are required to return some of these students Pell Grant and student loan aid to the US Department of Education.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
Most schools then place registration holds that bar further enrollment until students repay their federal aid to the school. AB 1160, as amended, would grant students a one time grace period to re-enroll for an academic term after incurring an institutional debt. This would allow time for students to arrange a payment plan for what they owe while continuing to progress towards their degree.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
This grace period will actually be revenue positive for schools, and this is because students with institutional debts are often eligible for Pell Grant and Cal Grants to cover tuition during the grace period, and these grant funded tuition payments are likely to exceed the students debts. But grants can't be used to make payments on institutional debts themselves.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
Using the grace period to arrange a payment plan will also be likely to increase the likelihood that a student will repay the debt. Several community colleges, CSUs, and UCs have already demonstrated success with this approach, and contrary to some misunderstandings, AB 1160 will not create a loophole for students to get out of paying tuition.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
This is because AB 1160 preserves schools drop for nonpayment policies. These policies drop students when they have not paid tuition for the current term. In sum, AB 1160, as amended, takes a balanced approach to protect students while helping schools to keep them enrolled when hardships create unexpected debts. Thank you again for the opportunity to speak with you, and I'm happy to answer any questions.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you very much. Do we have any other witnesses here in the hearing room would like to testify in support of this measure? Please come to the microphone. State your name, your organization, your position.
- Samantha Seng
Person
Good morning. It's Samantha Seng with NextGen California in proud support and co-sponsor. Also on behalf of some other co-sponsors that couldn't make it today. Student Borrower Protection Center, Student Debt Crisis Center, the CSU Student Association, Young Invincibles, and Consumer Reports, all in strong support. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, Ms. Seng. Good to see you.
- Anna Mathews
Person
Good morning, Chair and Members. Anna Mathews with the Faculty Association of California Community Colleges in strong support of this bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Bella Kern
Person
Bella Kern on behalf of the Institute for College Access and Success in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- David Hawkins
Person
Chair Newman, Senators, David Hawkins with the Community College Independents Faculty Union in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Let's now go to opposition. Do we have any witnesses here that would like testify in opposition to the bill? I see Jessica Duong and that's it. Okay. Okay. And Maggie White. Okay. Welcome, Ms. White. And I don't know who's going first, but you can flip a coin. Please proceed.
- Jessica Duong
Person
Good morning, Mr. Chair and Members. I'm Jessica Duong with the University of California, here in opposition to AB 1160. We appreciate the discussions we've had with the author and sponsors, and we want to acknowledge the work that they have done to clarify certain provisions of this bill. However, UC is still opposed.
- Jessica Duong
Person
AB 1160 would prohibit UC's ability to use industry standards to collect unpaid student debt. Our campuses work closely with students, offering payment plans, providing counseling via meetings, telephone calls, online appointments, and written correspondence. These measures are aimed at communicating options to set the student on a path to good standing and prevent adverse financial impacts.
- Jessica Duong
Person
AB 1160 would also prevent the UC from contracting with a collection agency until 180 days or six months have passed. Our campus accounting offices have seen that, after such a significant window of time has passed, it becomes less likely for the debt to be collected. Additionally, UC is facing a likely $125 million cut to our base budget as part of this year's Budget Act. Restricting our ability to collect debt will further strain UC's financial resources.
- Jessica Duong
Person
Ultimately, UC believes that maintaining the ability to employ standard debt collection practices is essential for our financial stability, and by extension, for safeguarding the accessibility and affordability of higher education for all students within the UC system. For these reasons, UC opposes AB 1160. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you very much. Ms. White.
- Maggie White
Person
Good morning. I'm Maggie White with the California State University. Thank you for your time today. I'm here in respectful opposition to AB 1160. I'd like to first thank the author and the sponsors for meeting with us many times to try to bridge the gap between our two sides.
- Maggie White
Person
I recognize that the bill has been significantly amended since it was first introduced last year, but unfortunately, on this bill and in this budget climate, we are not able to remove our opposition at this time, as we have ongoing concerns. At the CSU, we basically have three ways of collecting on past due institutional debts.
- Maggie White
Person
We can put a hold on the next semester's registration, which gets the student to come talk to the campus and find a solution for struggles they may be experiencing. We can often connect them with an emergency grant from the campus. We can adjust their financial aid package if they've incurred unexpected expenses or had a job loss or health issue in the family. We can connect them with basic need support, rapid rehousing, CalFresh, and or a payment plan to keep them enrolled in making academic progress while addressing the debt to the university.
- Maggie White
Person
In other cases, when the debt has gone unpaid and the individual has left the campus, we utilize third party debt collection and tax offset. I do want to be extremely clear, this is not the first step we take, ever, and we don't take it lightly. Every campus is required to make a minimum of three outreach attempts to get the student to come into the office, come talk to us about whatever you may be experiencing after the debt has become past due. Most of our CSU campuses make an average of five outreach attempts before escalating to debt collection.
- Maggie White
Person
I do understand that a major priority of this legislation is to address the debt that occurs when a student leaves partway through the semester and then is required to pay back their prorated financial aid to the federal government. We currently choose to assume that debt on behalf of the student, we pay it back for them so they don't have to deal directly with the bureaucracy of the US Department of Education, but we are not required to do so.
- Maggie White
Person
We consider that a best practice for our students, but if we are unable to collect on that debt in the future, we would not be able to afford doing so in an ongoing manner. As we do face a potential $75 million budget cut in the year ahead, we feel it's more important than ever that we retain the tools we currently have in our toolbox to collect on payments. I'd be happy to answer any questions. Appreciate your time.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Let us now hear from members of the public who'd like to testify in opposition to the bill. Please come forward. Mr. Back.
- Matt Back
Person
Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman and Members, Matt Back, representing California Association of Private Postsecondary Schools, also in opposition.
- Scott Govenar
Person
Mr. Chair and Members, Scott Govenar, University of Phoenix, here in opposition.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Nune Garipian
Person
Good afternoon. Nuna grouping on behalf of the Community College League of California, representing the Chief Executive Officers of California Community Colleges, in respectful opposition. Also want to thank the author and her staff for being open to our concerns. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Alex Graves
Person
Good morning. Alex Graves of the Association of Independent California Colleges and Universities, representing 89 private nonprofit colleges, in respectful opposition. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Let's come back to the dais. Colleagues, questions, comments for the author? Senator Glazer.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Thank you. I have to admit that in looking at this bill initially has all my sympathy and I join in the goals in which you have advanced. Nobody wants to have this debt over students. No one wants to see a diploma denied for a debt. But in looking at it more deeply, I'm struggling, and maybe the author can help. In terms of the the data on how campuses are really doing. We hear UC say 90 million a year, at least I think it's in the analysis. They lose 90 million a year in debt. That's a lot.
- Steven Glazer
Person
CSU may have similar numbers. But it's really about how, and the CSU testified to how they have their best practices. But I welcome information from you or from the witnesses in opposition to share with us the real data that explains why things are not being handled well, that we should have a state mandate like your bill proposes.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
Okay, I'll hand it over to my witness.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
So one thing I can add, and I mentioned this in my testimony, only around 25% of these debts are ever repaid, and that includes at our most esteemed University of California campuses. I think when we looked at the data for UC Berkeley, it was below 20% of these debts were ever collected.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
And the reason is that they typically arise, as I mentioned, during hardships, either health or economic hardships that lead to these mid semester withdrawals. And students typically don't have the funds because they've already expended them on educational expenditures. They don't have the in pocket funds to repay them.
- Steven Glazer
Person
And if I can pause you for a second, then I'm trying to understand then how does that affect the denial of a diploma? Because if they are in these circumstances, they can't continue or even re-registering in another semester.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
I know that you and many of the Committee Members have a lot of expertise in our financial aid system. What a student can do is receive a Pell Grant or a Cal Grant, as our low income students often do, towards paying their subsequent semesters of tuition. But what they can't do is use that financial aid towards the debt that they've incurred. And so what the bill is proposed to do, and as has been discussed, there's been a lot of back and forth between the author and the segments that's made the bill, frankly, a lot better.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
And so what it's saying is not students never have to repay these debts. They still do. After repay these debts, I actually would expect that repayment rates will get better. The reason being, if you have the grace period of one term to keep the student enrolled, they stay connected to the institution, and they can work with the institution to work out a payment plan for paying off the debt over time while using available financial aid to make their future tuition payments in subsequent terms.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Right. And I heard that in your testimony earlier, but I'm trying to understand the data on exactly how the campuses are handling the debts. I mean, you're saying 75% aren't collected. You want them to keep re-registering?
- Charlie Eaton
Person
And what I mean when I say that is not that the schools don't send them to collections. What I mean is when they send them to collections, the third party debt collectors and the tax offset program, when employed, are only successful in recovering around 25% of the funds because you can't get water out of a stone.
- Steven Glazer
Person
I get that, but I'm still trying to understand. That's the worst case. Right. I'm still trying to understand how the campuses are pragmatically handling it for those students. In other words, if you have 10,000 students who have that problem in the course of a year at UC, and maybe UC can speak to this, you know, how has their care and concern for those students resulted in what happened to those 10,000? And maybe UC can speak to that because it's still about data, who's collecting the data, so I have real information to make a policy choice about it. And I'd be interested in UC's response.
- Josh Newman
Person
Can I add just, so I don't have to ask a question later, but I heard from Ms. White that CSU, I assume UC does have policies and approaches that would work with the students. What's missing as you answer this question that the legislation aspires to fill? Go ahead.
- Maggie White
Person
Thank you, sir. I appreciate the conversation. Yes, we do offer payment plans for our students. We want them to re-enroll. We want them to go into that next semester and continue their academic journey with us. I think that's the primary goal of the bill, and I don't want to speak for the sponsors, are these larger debts that I think would be very intimidating to a student. It may be a couple of thousand dollars.
- Maggie White
Person
If they've left more than 60% of the way through the semester and have that debt of their Pell Grant being repaid to the federal government, we should be offering a payment plan to those students to get them re-enrolled for the next semester. I want to be clear, and I can only speak for myself and not the coalition of opposition.
- Maggie White
Person
That's the area of the bill I have the least concern with. I think the language doesn't exactly align with what we do, but this is a best practice and policy for us at CSU of bringing that student back on campus. We lost a lot of students during the pandemic who left our campuses.
- Maggie White
Person
I think that's where we see some of the data about this institutional debt. Of those Pell Grants being repaid by the campus to the US Department of ED. We want to bring those students back. So I think there may be particulars that differ. I have no problem with payment plans.
- Maggie White
Person
Even someone might hit me from the audience for saying this, I don't know. even the diplomas. We already offer transcripts to students, whether they have their institutional debt to us or not. That was from a bill several years ago that we cannot withhold their transcript, which is what really shows that they've completed their degree, I think, more than the diploma. So that is not a huge priority for us. Our opposition largely today is on the tax offset.
- Maggie White
Person
When all other avenues have failed, they can garnish the tax return of a former student to return the institutional debt to the university. We've only been able to survey a few campuses at this time, hoping to have the rest of the campuses within the next week or so.
- Maggie White
Person
But we're looking at about a quarter million dollars a year per campus at the CSU, $250,000 per year that's recouped in that way. And so when we're facing potentially large budget deficits and cuts to the system, we really can't say, well, it's minor and absorbable. It's minor and absorbable. We have to be really careful that those avenues aren't shut down for us while we are very open to getting those students back on campus and having those payment plans in place. And I'm sorry, I probably went way beyond what your question was.
- Josh Newman
Person
It's really Senator Glazer's question.
- Steven Glazer
Person
I'd like to hear UC's response. And once again, I'm not hearing data. I'm hearing a total amount that you collect or don't collect, but I'm really not hearing some, you know, a heart of how each student is handled. Because, look, yeah, let's just hear from UC, and then I'll follow up.
- Jessica Duong
Person
At UC, we don't have a uniform policy on how our campuses collect this debt. Each campus has their own policy, but most of them do offer payment plans. Generally, we provide first communication with students that the debt is owed, and they can also contact our accounting offices to see what they can do.
- Jessica Duong
Person
Our concern with this bill, it's with the collection timeframe, just because if the longer you kind of wait to collect debt, the harder it is to recoup that money, and research has shown that. We also are concerned with the tax offsets as well in this bill. So we feel like 1160 will make it even harder for us to collect any of the debt. The 90 million that was referenced in our letter.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Got it. And my frustration with the testimony is that it's still not very specific.
- Josh Newman
Person
So the data you're looking for, the data you're looking for is what? Like the number of students, the share of students who repay, how much they have left to pay?
- Steven Glazer
Person
There's payment plans, how many students take advantage of it, how many don't take advantage of it, and what the recourse that this bill would provide with a delay, what does they think that would mean? I'm trying to get... Yeah, right.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
And, sorry, apologize. But, Senator, that's exactly what we're asking for in this bill, for the data that you that you are asking for.
- Steven Glazer
Person
No, I'm glad to hear that. Typically, you would get the data and then you'd make a policy choice, and that'd be my last follow up question, if I can, Mr. Chairman, which is that, have you worked, and maybe this is your sponsor to agendize this at a trustees meeting, at a regents meeting.
- Steven Glazer
Person
They're very good, thoughtful people in leadership at these institutions to have the issue explored and examined so that if there's some bad policies on the campuses, that they'll adjust them and change them to make them more responsive. Because as I've heard from the witnesses, I mean, nobody wants this situation. This is a bad situation.
- Steven Glazer
Person
And when you think about disaster, and if you followed my work on the four year graduation rate, the worst thing we ever have on the campus is debt and no degree. I mean, there can't be anything worse for a student. And people have heard from me on that for a while. But have you worked with these institutions to, internally, to figure this stuff out before we do a one size fits all law?
- Josh Newman
Person
Go ahead.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
You know, we've worked quite a bit with the institutions, and I'm a faculty member myself at University of California Merced. I'm the Chair of our Financial Aid Committee for our academic Senate. We've worked really closely on our own campus. Our campus actually doesn't use the tax offset program, and that's a policy that we don't use it because we're very concerned about garnering tax refunds for low income students who benefit from the Child Tax Credit and the Earned Income Tax Credit. These are the people who we should least be targeting with the tax offset program.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
And we use more hands on, more, less punitive, more policies to bring students back because we've learned it helps to bring students back. We've also had conversations with UC Office of the President, not just with the legislative folks, but from the Office of Planning, with David Alcocer, Shawn Brick, and we've got lots of community colleges who have done the right thing here. The problem is it's a collective action problem. We've got to change policy here, including getting the data from the data collection in the bill. And so that's why a legislation rather than legislation...
- Steven Glazer
Person
Have you gone to the Board of Regents, had it agendized at a Regents meeting?
- Charlie Eaton
Person
Haven't had it agendized at the Regents meeting
- Steven Glazer
Person
Because this is an end run around what... We have governing boards for a reason. What about with the trustees? Has there been an effort to agendize this that the trustees examined?
- Charlie Eaton
Person
We've met with individual Regents, including the Student Regent, who's been very supportive and who's been supportive of us taking a legislative approach, because, again, it's a system wide problem.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Yeah, I was a student leader back then, too, and I always liked coming here first. But that's the blind spot that I see in this bill, with the best of intentions, is that have you really exhausted the internal processes of our systems, given them the opportunity to examine their policies and make appropriate changes?
- Steven Glazer
Person
I know from our point of view is we're cutting them, and they're raising tuition. That's creating huge impacts on kids dropping out. So we see the ugly circumstance of budget cuts and budget challenges, and yet this is going to put even more pressure when we're about to potentially cut hundreds of millions from their budget. So that's a real dilemma for me. But my heart is with the author and what you're trying to do, I just don't know if the process has been exhausted at the point at which we really should act today. That's my dilemma.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
And just, Senator, so you're aware we've been having extensive conversations ever since last year. This is a two year bill, and this bill has been significantly amended to what we have before us. So that way it becomes a better bill. And we're going to continue having more conversations and more discussions to even perfect it even more.
- Josh Newman
Person
Any other comments from colleagues? No? So I guess the striking feature here is, to Senator Glazer's point, admirable intent, but universal opposition from all of the different players in higher education. Right. So CSU, UC, independent colleges, community colleges. So I guess, let me ask the witnesses, is there an amendable version of this somewhere down the legislative road that you can envision?
- Jessica Duong
Person
So we segments have let the author's office know that we're willing to work with them on a policy, like a policy within our institutions, with communications and outreach plans and payment plans at our campuses. And we feel like this is the best strategy moving forward to ensure that students aren't harmed, adversely affected by this.
- Josh Newman
Person
And to the author, is that, I mean, that's a conversation you've obviously been having. I assume you're willing to continue to Senator Glazer's point, what's probably missing is data. So nothing wrong with actually forcing the collection of that data. But on the other parameters here, it seems challenging, right, to get to a consensus.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
So we've been working, we have an open door policy. We've already removed some opposition from this bill. We've been perfecting this bill, and our door is always open. So if there's any like amendments, specific language that we can look at, that would be appreciated. So that way we can perfect this bill. So to the opposition, please, please seek out my office so that way we can have further discussions because I do have an open door policy.
- Josh Newman
Person
And so it does seem there's kind of an inherent tension here. On the one hand, 180 days is thought to be the key to keeping students in school, right. If they go away for too long, they don't come back. On the other side, that seems to be the sort of horizon where debts don't get repaid. So is there something less than 180 days that sort of meets folks in the middle? Go ahead, Ms. Duong.
- Jessica Duong
Person
We requested amendments to change the 180 days to 90 days. Most of UC is on the quarter system, so this is more reflective of our quarter system.
- Josh Newman
Person
So then to the author, why not 90 days? Or one of the witnesses. What would be adverse about taking that amendment?
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
I will let my witness answer.
- Charlie Eaton
Person
Yeah. Regarding industry standards. So the 180 days was actually suggested by the Debt Collectors Association, by their trade group, because that's what our standard is for medical debts. It seems that we should be treating students, disproportionately low income students, the same as we treat folks with medical.
- Josh Newman
Person
But you could provide for holding off on debt collection to 100 days, but other sort of cures might be initiated sooner, right? That might be... right? And so I kind of get the debt collection piece, but there's a whole bunch of other steps that might be taken in the interim that might be positive and more appealing to the segments. Right, Ms. White?
- Maggie White
Person
Well, I'll go down my list and try to be relevant. The tax offset is one of our avenues we have currently that would be completely prohibited. So no tax offset. The debt collection would have a 180 day waiting period. We hear that it has worse results as far as repayment, the longer you wait.
- Maggie White
Person
I hear from the sponsor that there's only a 25% repayment rate. Certainly that's lower than 100, but it's higher than zero. And so we are still eager to have that avenue open to us when possible. I think that the 90 days, like Ms. Duong said, aligns more so with the current semester or quarter than a six month period.
- Maggie White
Person
So we ideally would still be in contact with that student. They would still have the relationship with the campus. Again, I think there's room for negotiation. If it's not 90, is it 120? Is it 110? I think there may be somewhere in the middle to meet. But again, my primary concern at CSU is the total prohibition of different methods, including tax offset, which just totally closes that down for us.
- Josh Newman
Person
Do you want to respond to that?
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
And actually, some of this opposition, the community college opposition just came in last week, and keep in mind, it's a two year bill. So I would appreciate, like, any amendments, you know, we need to have discussions on that because we actually haven't had a clear set of amendments that we could possibly take.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
So if we could get those amendments so that way we can work through this bill. Because we've had extensive conversations again, ever since last year, we've said, come to us, let's have discussions. And I think we've met a couple of times as well. So I'm willing to have further discussions to fine tune this bill, but we need to continue those conversations in order to do that.
- Josh Newman
Person
Okay. And so to Senator Glazer's point about student success, this is important, especially with not only declining enrollment, but an increasing costs and budget deficits being faced by the segments. So I guess, you know, I'll say I'll support the bill today, but I would urge you to work with the opposition. And to be clear, you know, I'm willing to withhold my vote later if that doesn't happen to their satisfaction. Senator Glazer?
- Steven Glazer
Person
And you may have the votes today, and that's fine. I know the amendment that I would find reasonable to me, which is that you direct both systems, all three systems, to agendize this issue before their governing board and report back to the Legislature with the data on, with any kind of change, but certainly on the data on exactly how all the campuses are handling the matter.
- Steven Glazer
Person
So we would at least then, if we were to hear this bill later, we would have some more information. We would have a clear ability of the campus leadership, not just the staff and the Chancellors and the Office of the President, but the governing board Members probably have no idea about your bill.
- Steven Glazer
Person
In fact, when I looked at the opposition position from the CSU, it says Office of the Chancellor. That means it probably has never been heard by the Trustees, which we put in charge of the system. They're going to be blindsided. Unless they are, your bill could force them to engage.
- Steven Glazer
Person
And that would be an amendment again, you may have the votes today, but that would be an amendment that would make me more comfortable with the bill because your heart is in the right place. We're all agreeing about the goals you're trying to meet. I just don't like the cleaver here and when a stiletto might be the right way to deal with it.
- Josh Newman
Person
And I guess, and correct me if I'm wrong, my understanding is that these segments have actually suggested amendments that you did not accept. Is that correct?
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
I'm sorry, what was that again?
- Josh Newman
Person
The opposition actually provided suggested amendments that were rejected.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
We have not received suggested amendments.
- Jessica Duong
Person
Like I mentioned earlier, we had the amendments from the 180 to 90 days, and then there was also another rejected amendment so that the definition of institutional debt did not include loans, institutional loans, which was also rejected.
- Josh Newman
Person
So do I see a willingness to engage?
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
Yes. Yes, definitely.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
Okay.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
And I am committed to working with opposition, and I think opposition can attest to that, that we have had an open door policy so that we can have further discussions.
- Josh Newman
Person
And to Senator Glazer's very sensible suggestion, like is, would it be possible to get that data before we next consider this legislation, which I assume will be on the floor later this summer.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Option, Mister chair, is you have three more hearings this month, the month of June, that give the author the chance and take her up on our willingness to try to work these issues out. And let's not move the Bill out yet. Give them a couple weeks to work it out.
- Josh Newman
Person
So this is referred to judiciary that has an intensely busy agenda. Right. So I'm sort of. I want to be considerate of that, but let me give the author a chance to respond.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
So I'm the type of Legislator who works with opposition, and that's why this Bill has become a two year Bill. So that way we could iron out some of the issues that the opposition has.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
Unfortunately, the community college just came out with their opposition last week, so this was something new to us, but we are committed to working with it, with this Bill, with opposition. And I know we have to still get through judiciary.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
So if it gets through today, everyone has my commitment that I will continue working on this Bill even as it goes through the process, while it goes through judiciary. And hopefully, once it gets to the Senate Floor, I can earn your support for my Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
And for the record, I mean, if community colleges registered their opposition last week, I assume that is not the case for CSU and UC. You've registered your opposition has been on the record for quite some time.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
And UC and AICCu have been since last year, sir.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
UC's opposition was from last week. However, we've been meeting with the author's office, with the CSU and AICCU with the same concerns.
- Josh Newman
Person
Okay.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
That is correct.
- Josh Newman
Person
All right. So I am willing to, you know, to give the author that deference with the understanding that you will work actively with the opposition. And I think you're going to have an equal measure of challenge with judiciary if you don't find some accommodation there. So with that, do I have a motion?
- Steven Glazer
Person
I would move the Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
A motion from Senator Glazer. And would you like to close?
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
Yes. So this Bill is all about protecting students and to allow them to achieve their goal of achieving their educational goals and their diplomas. I will commit myself to working with opposition to fine tune this Bill, to make it better. And I respectfully ask for your aye vote.
- Unidentified Speaker
Person
Okay.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. We have a motion. Senator Glazer. Madam Secretary, please call the roll file.
- Committee Secretary
Person
Item seven, AB 1160. Pacheco motion is do passed to the Senate Judiciary Committee. [Roll Call}
- Committee Secretary
Person
[Roll Call]
- Committee Secretary
Person
[Roll Call]
- Committee Secretary
Person
[Roll Call]
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure currently has two votes. We'll leave it open for absent Members. Thank you.
- Blanca Pacheco
Legislator
Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. The witnesses let us move on to Doctor Weber. Who has been waiting so patiently. Appreciate that. And you bring to us not one, but two bills. Thank you for that. And the first of your bills I show as AB 1841. Please proceed when ready. Please.
- Scott Wilk
Person
Thank you. Mister chair and Members of the Committee, I am here to present AB 1841. AB 1841 would require the CSU and community colleges and request the UC to require the residential advisors to be trained and have easy access to naloxone. We are all aware of the rising opioid related deaths in California and the beneficial role naloxone plays in reducing that harm.
- Scott Wilk
Person
And the beneficial role naloxone plays in reducing that harm.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
Currently, there is no legislation mandating California public universities and colleges train their residential life employees on how to administer naloxone. While students can receive naloxone through the naloxone distribution program on campus. This does not mean that students know where the nearest dose of Narcan is located.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
In the event of an overdose. Every second matters. And having students know where the life saving medication is. And that it's right down the hall can save lives. This Bill is not intended to turn RAs into first responders. We simply want to put this life saving medication close to students who may not have a dose available.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
Additionally, this Bill requires the campuses to send out emails to students. To alert them that the ras have access to Narcan. To ensure that they are informed. AB 1841 provides much needed training requirements. For on campus University residential life staff. As well as off campus University affiliated Greek life. For the overall wellness of the student population.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
Here to speak with me and support today is Esperanza Boer, representing Jen up, one of the sponsors of the Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, Miss Boer. I think we've had you as a witness before, is that correct?
- Esperanza Booher
Person
Yes.
- Josh Newman
Person
Welcome back. Please proceed.
- Esperanza Booher
Person
All right. Good afternoon, Chairman Newman and Members of the Committee. My name is Esperanza Booher and I'm currently a second year at American River College. Serving as a Director of organizing at Generation Up. GENup is proud to be an entirely student led and run youth advocacy organization.
- Esperanza Booher
Person
Focusing on advancing educational equity through community organizing and the legislative process, representing thousands of students nationally. As a proud writer and principal sponsor, GENup advocates for Assembly Bill 1841 to foster safer campus communities through harm reduction, awareness and aid. AB 1841 works to include naloxone training and accessibility on college campuses, specifically within student housing.
- Esperanza Booher
Person
As someone who has sadly had to face the reality of witnessing my classmates and closest friends overdose and not knowing what to do or having anything to help in the moment, I was very excited when naloxone became available through my campus.
- Esperanza Booher
Person
Because of naloxone, I no longer have to feel hopeless and I can find comfort in knowing I'm always carrying something that can save my friends. Although despite its importance, I was beyond surprised when I learned that campuses are not mandated to offer the Nolikstone training to residential life staff.
- Esperanza Booher
Person
For a tool so powerful, it only has as much power as its ability to be administered correctly. Naloxone, more commonly known as Narcan, is a lifesaving opioid reversal drug that has saved almost 200,000 lives since the beginning of the naloxone distribution project in 2018.
- Esperanza Booher
Person
Overdose is a preventable cause of death with the usage of Narcan and this piece of legislation ensures the safety of students statewide by providing resources and training to all students of different backgrounds. GENup seeks their support in promoting harm reduction on California's public campuses.
- Esperanza Booher
Person
Rather than shaming students for addiction by providing University affiliated staff such as ras and Greek Life house managers access and training to life saving medication, we would be able to make a difference. This is imperative to the safety of students as people who holding these live in positions are closer to students than campus health centers.
- Esperanza Booher
Person
By expanding students education and access to university harm reduction resources, as well as offering accessible aid and support. Support we at GENup urge you to support AB 1841 to ensure that students are able to grow in a community that values their life and takes action for their safety. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Any other witnesses in support of the measure? If so, please come forward to the microphone. State your name, your organization, your position.
- Kat Bess
Person
Welcome Kat Bess on behalf of the California Alliance of Child and Family Services in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- David Hawkins
Person
David Hawkins with the Community College Independent Faculty Unions in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Trent Murphy
Person
Trent Murphy with the California Association of Alcohol and Drug Program Executives in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Anna Matthews
Person
Anna Matthews with the Faculty Association of California Community Colleges in support.
- Mario Guerrero
Person
Chair Newman. Members of the Committee, Mario Guerrero, on behalf of the University of California. Not in opposition, but I did want to take the opportunity to share that we've provided the author's office two recommended amendments that address concerns. We have no issues, of course, with the notification, no issues with the training. None of that. But we do.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Do we have any witnesses in opposition to the measure? Please come forward and welcome.
- Mario Guerrero
Person
Members of the Committee, Mario Guerrero, on behalf of the University of California. Not in opposition, but I did want to take the opportunity to share that we've provided the author's office two recommended amendments that address concerns. We have no issues, of course, with the notification, no issues with the training. None of that. But we do.
- Mario Guerrero
Person
The second is to, Instead of requiring residential advisors to carry the opioid reversal medication while on duty. To have the medication available in an accessible location in the dormitories. We believe that this may actually increase access. Because over the current language. Because residential advisors, they're not always in the residential halls when they're on duty. Additionally, residential advisors are students.
- Mario Guerrero
Person
We would like to. We have recommended removing the language requiring academic advisors to have the opioid overdose reversal medication in their dorms. And I believe that is an amendment that is coming. We just want to be on the record on that.
- Mario Guerrero
Person
And we believe that placing an additional requirement on them. May not be an approach that we're comfortable with. But we absolutely agree that we need to increase access. And so we're hopeful that we can continue conversations on those two recommendations. And just really appreciate the Bill. Thank you so much.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Any other witnesses in opposition? Let's come back to the dais. Just to start. Do those recommended amendments make sense to you, Doctor Webber?
- Scott Wilk
Person
Yes, actually, the first one that he mentioned. We were supposed to have taken it. But it was missed when we did our last set of amendments. And so we'll definitely be taking that up. And we'll continue with conversations about the second one.
- Josh Newman
Person
Okay, I appreciate that. Any other comments? Questions from. Got a motion for Senator Glazer. Would you like to close?
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
Appreciate you all allowing us to present this Bill. Really appreciate the sponsor. Jen up. And also our witness for coming and speaking on the importance of the Bill. And would appreciate an aye vote at the appropriate.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. We have a motion for Senator Glazer. Madam consultant, please call the roll file.
- Committee Secretary
Person
Item 13, AB 1841. Weber motion is due past a Senate Health Committee. [Roll Call]
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure has four votes. We'll leave it open for now. And let us now move on to your second piece of legislation, AB 1891.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, Miss Weber. Welcome to your witnesses.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
Thank you, Chair and Committee Members. Again, I'm here to present AB 1891, which will give California Community Colleges the option to utilize multi-criteria screening in their admission process for Allied Health programs. As the largest educator of California's healthcare workforce, community colleges play a major role in addressing health care and workforce shortages.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
However, due to the increasing demand for the community colleges' Allied Health programs, there is limited capacity to admit all students to apply. Since 2007, multi-criteria screening has provided community colleges' nursing programs with the tools to admit diverse and academically strong applicant pools amidst limited capacity.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
Today, 58 of the community college nursing programs use multi-criteria screening to grow diversity and academic success. However, current law permits community colleges to use these multi-criteria screening for nursing programs only, not for all Allied Health programs.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
Allied Health programs train students for professions that provide a wide range of support service in connection to the major healthcare sectors, including programs for dental assisting, paramedics, phlebotomy, and more.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
AB 1891 will allow community colleges' Allied Health programs to utilize this multi-criteria screening in their admission process in order to equitably address capacity limitations while improving the success of admitted students.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
This community college will now be able to either use multi-criteria screening, a lottery system, or a combination of multi criteria screening and the lottery in their admission process. This versatility allows for colleges to adopt admission practices beneficial to the unique needs of their district.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
As the name indicates, there are several aspects of an applicant's background that colleges consider when utilizing this multi-criteria screening.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
This includes the students' past academic record and work experience such as grade point average and credentials, along with life experiences or special circumstances of the applicant, including disability, low family income, first generation status, refugee or veteran status, and other languages spoken, among others.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
By taking these considerations criteria into consideration, Allied Health programs would simultaneously improve the academic success and the diversity. Today, I have with me the sponsor, the California Community Colleges Vice Chancellor David O'Brien and in support Dr. Lucien as a witness.
- Josh Newman
Person
Welcome Mr O'Brien. Welcome. Please proceed.
- David O'Brien
Person
Thank you. Good morning Chair Newman, good last few minutes of morning, Chair Newman.
- Josh Newman
Person
Let's enjoy it together.
- David O'Brien
Person
My name is David O'Brien, the Vice Chancellor Government Relations for the California Community Colleges. As Dr. Weber noted, we are the proud sponsors of AB 1891 and I won't take up too much time repeating some of the excellent points that the author made.
- David O'Brien
Person
I just want to note that multi-criteria screening allows colleges to give additional consideration in nursing programs to applicants with prior academic accomplishments and who have lived experiences such as being first generation or low income, and who speak multiple languages.
- David O'Brien
Person
It's used in 53 of our 77 current nursing programs and we view it as a powerful tool to help diversify the healthcare workforce, and we're looking forward to not only being able to continue to use multi-criteria screening in our nursing programs, but its expansion to all of our Allied Health programs.
- David O'Brien
Person
Really just want to thank the author for her leadership on health equity issues and our outstanding faculty and administrators in these fields, and happy to turn it over to my colleague from Sacramento City College.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you and welcome. Dr. Lucien. Please.
- Darreis Lucien
Person
Mister Chair Newman and Committee Members, I respectfully request your support for AB 1891 which would align admission processes of a multi-criteria screening procedure to the Allied Health programs. My name is Darreis Lucian. I am a registered nurse and co Assistant Director and faculty Member of the associate degree nursing program at Sacramento City College SCC.
- Darreis Lucien
Person
I am familiar with the multi-criteria screening for the nursing program enrollment. In 2010, SCC changed the application process from traditional measures of weighted grade point and random selection to implement the multi-criteria admission process. Multi-criteria has provided an equitable admission process.
- Darreis Lucien
Person
It provides access for capable students who may not have made the grade point average criteria to pick up points in life experience areas and therefore qualify to enter the application pool. Multi-criteria screening has made a positive impact on achieving a more diverse representative applicant pool, which provides a pipeline for increased diversity in the classroom and workforce.
- Darreis Lucien
Person
Integration of the diverse student sharing perspective builds their confidence, empathy with increased belonging and retention. In the nursing workforce, these students are better equipped to care for diverse patients that reflect the changing demographics of the U.S. population.
- Darreis Lucien
Person
In our last three years, our licensure pass rate has averaged 95.7 and employment rate has been about 100% in that first year. Use of the multi-criteria screening tool has improved the admission process for our students. It will provide the same benefits for all Allied Health programs at SCC.
- Darreis Lucien
Person
That includes our licensed vocational nursing program, occupational and physical therapy program, our dental assistants, and our dental hygiene programs. I appreciate your time and urge you to support 1891. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you very much. Let's now move to opposition. Is there anybody here who would like testify to opposition to this measure? I'm sorry, public support. Let's do it. Is anybody here? So you could have said something. You're also polite. Please, members of the public in support, please proceed.
- Kasha B Hunt
Person
Hi, I'm Kasha Hunt here with Nossaman, here on behalf of Citrus College and Mount San Antonio College, and we do support this Bill. Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Next, please.
- Anna Matthews
Person
Anna Matthews with the Faculty Association of California Community Colleges, in strong support, thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Bella Kern
Person
Bella Kern, on behalf of Pasadena City College and El Camino College, in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Stella Johnson
Person
Stella Johnson, on behalf of Cerritos College in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Now, is there anybody here who'd like to testify in opposition? Still seeing none. Very good. Let's bring it back to dais, Senator Glazer.
- Steven Glazer
Person
I'll ask the naive question, the innocent child question. Why do you need a state law to do this? Aren't the community colleges able to do this now?
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
So, and I'll let them speak on that, but they can only do this as of right now with their nursing program.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
And so this would allow them in each college the flexibility to determine whether or not they want to use it, if they want to continue with their lottery process or do a combination of the multi-criteria screening or the lottery. But I will turn it over to our community colleagues.
- Josh Newman
Person
But to be clear, to extend it to Allied Health as well as nursing. Okay.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
Yes,
- Steven Glazer
Person
Right, but my question is, what in state law prohibits them from doing that now? Did they need that authorization for nursing? And why can't they just decide for the
- David O'Brien
Person
It's a good question, Senator. There was legislation in, I believe, 2007. I wasn't around for it, but, yes, it was originally authorized through statute. So presumably the chancellor's office conducted a study initially to examine the options for an expanded admission and screening process at the time that led to that statute.
- David O'Brien
Person
So presumably, at some point during the conduct of that study, it was determined that there was a statutory change needed. If I had to guess, and I'm not an attorney, my educated guess would be that it has to do with the fact that fundamentally, we're open access institutions, right.
- David O'Brien
Person
So we don't have a competitive admissions process like UC or CSU, except for those programs that are impacted, which are nursing and Allied Health programs consistently are among the most impacted.
- Steven Glazer
Person
I see.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Because certainly, and this doesn't resolve it in this Bill, but giving them authorization to determine their eligibility requirements broadly would seem to be like an appropriate legislative directive where you wouldn't have to keep coming to us for these things, which just can be decided by the governing boards at the local level or at the state level.
- Steven Glazer
Person
The second question is, in my day, we refer to this as affirmative action, which I support. Isn't this the same as just affirmative action under a different name?
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
Well, I think affirmative action looked at, it was a race based system. This is not. This is taking into a variety of different accounts, including life experiences.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
So if you're going into the health sector and you've already have some kind of health background, that would probably mean that you'd be a little bit more successful and finish the program than someone who hadn't. It takes into account of, you know, disability or languages.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
If you are a community college in a particular area that, you know, services a large proportion of people from Ethiopia, and you happen to speak Amharic, then that would allow for them to take into those considerations that this particular individual would not only be successful at finishing the program, but would also stay in the community, because this is the community in which they're from and they speak the language and the culture and things like that.
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
So it's a little different than affirmative action.
- Steven Glazer
Person
It's a little broader than the earlier definition and something I support. And finally, my thought is that the real solution here is to open up more slots. If people want to get into these Allied Healths, God bless them, we need them and we should be funding them.
- Steven Glazer
Person
And the system should be hiring more faculty if that's what it takes, because it's a very important thing. So I'm sorry to see that we have to have a Bill to deal with limitations that shouldn't really be there.
- Steven Glazer
Person
And I know that's, I would say, above my pay grade and perhaps yours, but that is something that from a state point of view we should be resolving in our budget.
- Josh Newman
Person
I hardly think that's above your pay grade.
- Steven Glazer
Person
It is mine.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Well it is a very, I think, important area. And right now, to your point, I mean, we're faced with severe budgetary constraints. There's also spatial constraints. And so I think this is a good solution to at least on the on and inter basis to this challenge.
- Josh Newman
Person
But to Senator Glazer's point about, you know, this sort of having the look and feel of affirmative action, I assume there haven't been any issues around the nurses applying multi-criteria screening to the nurses program to date, is that correct?
- David O'Brien
Person
Correct.
- Josh Newman
Person
Okay, good to hear. I'm glad to support the Bill, and any other comments from Members of the Committee? And do we have a motion? Senator Glaze moves the Bill. Would you like to close?
- Akilah Weber
Legislator
Just really appreciate our sponsors and those who have come in support and would respectfully ask for an "Aye" vote on this Bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Very good. Got a motion for Senator Glazer. Madam Consultant, please call the roll.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item 14. AB 1891. Weber. Motion is due passed to the Senate Appropriations Committee. [Roll Call]
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure now has three votes. We'll leave it open for absent Members. Thank you to the witnesses. Thank you to the author. Thank you for your patience. We will now move on to the second to last of our bills today. And that Bill is. Where is it? Item 16. I'm sorry. AB 1947.
- Josh Newman
Person
Assembly Member Rivas. You have been waiting extremely patiently. So welcome, and please proceed when you're ready.
- Luz Rivas
Person
Thank you, Mr. Chair and Members. I want to start by thanking Lynn for her work and thoughtful analysis on this bill. AB 1947 would expand the number of staff training days for California state preschool programs and allocate one of those days for DLL, or dual language learners training.
- Luz Rivas
Person
In 2020, the Governor released the Master Plan intended to transform the state's approach to early childhood education. The Master Plan provides a roadmap to address racial and economic inequities and calls for legislation to require developmental assessments both in English and in children's home languages, among other things.
- Luz Rivas
Person
In 2021, California signed in--the Governor signed into law AB 1363, which took the first step of implementing the Master Plan by requiring the State Superintendent of Public Instruction to develop a standardized process for California State Preschool Program providers to identify DLLs. AB 1947 builds on the progress made in AB 1363 in achieving the goals of the Master Plan to support our DLLs by helping our educators cater to the learning needs of our children.
- Luz Rivas
Person
Today, I have with me to provide testimony, Patti Herrera, Executive Vice President of School Services of California, and Cristina Salazar, Legislative Advocate for Californians Together.
- Josh Newman
Person
Ms. Salazar, I think you look ready to start. No? No.
- Luz Rivas
Person
I think she's conceding to--
- Josh Newman
Person
She's conceding. Ms. Herrera, go ahead.
- Patti Herrera
Person
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and Members of the Committee. As Assembly Member Rivas mentioned, I'm Patti Herrera, here on behalf of Early Edge California, a proud co-sponsor of AB 1947. We'd like to thank and recognize Assembly Member Rivas for her leadership and commitment to supporting dual language learners in our early learning system and her leadership in this space.
- Patti Herrera
Person
Second, we'd also like to acknowledge and thank Lynn for her comprehensive committee analysis that really articulates the why behind AB 1947 and why we're pursuing this bill, which is that California is home to the largest percentage of dual language learners who are equipped with the rich and promising asset of becoming bilingual and biliterate.
- Patti Herrera
Person
That research consistently shows that bi or multilingualism reaps lifetime benefits for children and larger socioeconomic benefits for the State of California, and that staff who teach and support our young dual language learners need access to training about how to best to support their cultural and language development needs, as well as how to effectively engage their families and parents in helping to develop their needs.
- Patti Herrera
Person
Evidence shows that early learning educators who undergo DLL-specific professional development completed their programs better equipped, more knowledgeable, and more confident about their ability to support children in their programs. We simply cannot ignore the need in our state to ensure that dual language learner children are given the proper support they need to thrive. For these reasons, we ask for your aye vote.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you very much. Ms. Salazar, welcome.
- Cristina Salazar
Person
Yes, thank you. Cristina Salazar with Californians Together. I would second everything our partners with Early Edge mentioned and the author as well, and just want to highlight that, you know, this bill is in line with the Master Plan, and they found that the caregivers often lack the support they need in order to provide the children with high-quality and culturally relevant experiences in both English and their home language, and so this is where the bill comes in and why it's highly needed.
- Cristina Salazar
Person
I want to highlight that one of our witnesses from the previous Policy Committee, who is a preschool teacher, said, you know, even if you yourself have a diverse background, that's not enough to serve the students that you have because they're all so different, and so at Californians Together, we seek to overcome and transform the harms of systemic, racial language and culturally inequalities in education to close opportunity gaps from early childhood through postsecondary education.
- Cristina Salazar
Person
And this bill is in the right direction because it empowers educators by giving them the necessary skills and knowledge to effectively support educational and developmental needs of children learning more than one language. So thank you, and we appreciate your support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Is anyone here now in support? I see some. Please come forward. State your name, your organization, and your position.
- Sadalia King
Person
Thank you. My name is Sadalia King with Catalyst California, here in strong support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Mary Creasy
Person
Mary Creasy, on behalf of the Children's Partnership, in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Sara Bachez
Person
Sara Bachez with Children Now, in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you.
- Carlos Rojas
Person
Carlos Rojas, representing the Kern County Superintendent of School's Office, in support. Thank you.
- Pamela Gibbs
Person
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and Members. Pamela Gibbs, representing the Los Angeles County Superintendent of Schools and LACOE, Los Angeles County Office of Education, in strong support of the bill.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you, Ms. Gibbs. Good to see you. Next, please.
- Anna Ioakimedes
Person
Anna Ioakimedes with Los Angeles Unified School District, in support.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Now let us move on to opposition. Do we have any opposition to the measure? Seeing none, come back to the dais. Colleagues? Senator Glazer.
- Steven Glazer
Person
I know this isn't the Fiscal Committee, but I do have--I did not understand who pays for this. Obviously it's a good thing. Very supportive of what you're trying to do. How is it paid for?
- Luz Rivas
Person
Do you want to go ahead?
- Patti Herrera
Person
Thank you, Senator. That's a great question. So under current law, and what our bill would expand is the number of allowable professional development days that are provided in a contractor's contract with the State of California.
- Patti Herrera
Person
So a state preschool contractor enters into an agreement with the California Department of Education about how much money they'll receive under the State Preschool Program. Within that dollar amount, a contractor may offer professional development days.
- Patti Herrera
Person
If they choose to or elect to use those professional development days, their contract will pay for it. So it doesn't cost the state any additional dollars, meaning it's budget-neutral. The State of California wouldn't have to put out additional resources beyond what the Legislature has already appropriated for the state's preschool program because it's covered in the contract.
- Steven Glazer
Person
Right. Does that mean then that we would cover fewer children then? Because if it's a fixed amount by the state--
- Patti Herrera
Person
Yeah, it depends, actually. So current law and our bill would offer some flexibility as to how contractors want to provide the professional development training. They can provide it outside of business hours, in which case it wouldn't reduce the number of children served in a contractor's program.
- Patti Herrera
Person
However, our bill does change this particular area of law where we authorize the Professional Development Program to be offered during business hours, frankly to meet the personal needs of the staff who themselves could face personal hardship if they're required to attend a training in the evening or on the weekends because they themselves often have children who need care.
- Patti Herrera
Person
And so if a contractor offers the professional development training during business hours, again, through the State Preschool Contract, it would cover the professional development, and of course, that particular center would be closed for the day, and so families who utilize the services of that contractor would need to find alternative care for that period of time or that professional development day.
- Steven Glazer
Person
So you think the cost of this is actually borne by the child care recipient because the center would close because of a training day? It wouldn't be borne by the state in terms of higher costs for those contracts?
- Patti Herrera
Person
That's certainly one way to look at it.
- Steven Glazer
Person
I'm just trying to be grounded. I like what you're doing. It's a good bill, but I just want to be grounded on where somebody has to pay--it's a good thing--and whether that's, that's all I'm trying to be real about.
- Josh Newman
Person
Yeah. So the cost has to be absorbed, and you said it might be--it'd be discretionary?
- Patti Herrera
Person
Yeah. Under existing law, contractors can provide professional development during the business day--that's existing law--or outside of business hours. If they offer it during the business day, they do not get to, they don't draw down their state reimbursements for the number of student children that they would otherwise be serving during the day.
- Patti Herrera
Person
Our bill changes that and authorizes them to earn state reimbursements for when professional development is offered during business hours because we have heard from contractors that that's one of the biggest barriers to actually utilizing this authority in law. I want to be clear. There's no mandate in this bill to offer professional development under the provisions of a contract. That's elective.
- Patti Herrera
Person
A contractor may or may not do so. We understand that very few contractors take advantage of that existing authority because it is difficult for them to utilize their contract dollars to pay for the professional development.
- Josh Newman
Person
But to Senator Glazer's point, that means that, you know, there's some day probably that students don't have access to care, right? That's the net impact.
- Patti Herrera
Person
Yeah. I mean, we have to acknowledge that if a contractor elects to offer the professional--the training during business hours, that families will need to find alternative care for that day. I myself, as a parent, when my kids were really young, I often had days where my center was closed, and I would have to find alternative care.
- Patti Herrera
Person
We've weighed the policy trade-off. As sponsors, we talked about this explicitly and a couple of things: we informed our decision to pursue the flexibility that's being pursued in this bill.
- Patti Herrera
Person
One is that we heard from the staff themselves, who are among the lowest paid workers in the State of California that it's really difficult and hard for them to be mandated to attend trainings outside of those hours. And then additionally, we hear from families after their staff has gone through the training, that they get better support. So it certainly is an inconvenience, but it's a short-term inconvenience that on the other end of it reaps big benefits for staff and families.
- Josh Newman
Person
Would there be a limitation on the number of days that a facility could close to provide that training?
- Patti Herrera
Person
The existing law is two days, and we are expanding that to six days--up to six days of training. And that is informed per year. Per year. Per contract term, yes.
- Josh Newman
Person
Okay. Any other questions, colleagues? Appreciate the need. Glad to support it. Looking for a motion. Got a motion from Senator Glazer. Got in the habit here. So I've got a motion from Senator Glazer. Would you like to close?
- Luz Rivas
Person
Thank you. I respectfully ask for an aye vote.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Madam Consultant, please call the roll.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item 16: AB 1947: Luz Rivas. The motion is do pass to Senate Human Services Committee. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure has three votes. We'll leave it open for absent members, and thank you very much.
- Luz Rivas
Person
Thank you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Now we have one more measure, and that's Assembly Mathis, who's absent. That's going to be presented by Senator Wilk. Senator Wilk, if you're watching somewhere looking for your return here, in the interim, let's do the consent calendar. Do we have a motion? Senator Glazer makes the motion. Thank you. On the consent calendar, Madam Gonzalem, please call the roll.
- Committee Secretary
Person
On the consent calendar. [Roll Call]
- Josh Newman
Person
All right, consent calendar has three votes. We will leave that open. And we are waiting for Senator Wilk to return. So while we're waiting, let's reopen the roll on measure AB 1955, from assemblymember Ward. Madam Gonzalem, please call the roll.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File item one, AB 1955. Ward. Motions do pass to the Senate Health Committee. [Roll Call]
- Josh Newman
Person
All right, we will continue to leave that open for Senator Smallwood-Cuevas. That measure currently has four votes for, two against. Thank you. And let's. I guess we'll recess until Senator Wilk and others come back.
- Josh Newman
Person
It is quite all right. Senator Wilk, you're doing a good deed, presenting this bill on behalf of Assembly Member Mathis. You will be presenting AB 2053, and you may proceed. Process of elimination says that's probably your witness, and you may proceed when ready.
- Scott Wilk
Person
Senator Glazer, you may want to sit down because this is the most important bill today. That's why it's last. All right, Mr. Chair and Members, I'm here today to present AB 2053, on behalf of Assemblyman Mathis. The California Healthy Youth Act requires school districts to administer sexual health education and human--I'm going to just go with HIV--prevention education to students at least once in middle school and once in high school.
- Scott Wilk
Person
Under the act, instruction includes information about adolescents' relationship abuse and intimate partner violence. However, there is no requirement to provide information on specific resources and hotlines available to the students.
- Scott Wilk
Person
AB 2053 would address this by requiring information to be included that directs students to available resources, such as including national, local, domestic violence hotlines. Common sense measure. Yada, yada, yada. AB 2053 has received support from a variety of great organizations and is sponsored by the California Council of Community Behavioral Health Agencies.
- Scott Wilk
Person
I respectfully ask for an aye vote. With me today is Courtnie Thomas, here on behalf of the California Council of Behavioral Health Agencies. You guys got to work on that name. And with that, turn it over to you.
- Josh Newman
Person
Ms. Thomas, welcome, and thank you for your patience. Please proceed.
- Courtnie Thomas
Person
Good afternoon, Chair Newman and Members of the Senate Education Committee, as well as staff. As mentioned, my name is Courtnie Thomas. I'm here on behalf of the California Council of Community Behavioral Health Agencies, or CBHA, and we're proud to sponsor AB 2052.
- Courtnie Thomas
Person
We are a statewide association of mental health and substance use disorder community agencies serving over one million Californians across the lifespan, and our providers also provide services to youth and young adults who have experienced intimate partner violence, IPV, in their families.
- Courtnie Thomas
Person
As previously mentioned in the last House, intimate partner violence, or IPV, and teen domestic violence, TDV, is a huge issue facing many students across California, and unfortunately, is increasing in frequency. Alongside the data, which currently includes that 19 percent of teens experience sexual or physical dating violence, about half face stalking or harassment, and as many as 65 percent report being psychologically abused.
- Courtnie Thomas
Person
Additionally, data from the CDC's National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey indicates that about 16 million women and 11 million men who reported experiencing contact, sexual violence, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetime so that they were first experiencing these forms of violence before the age of 18.
- Courtnie Thomas
Person
Also, about one in nine females and one in 36 male high school students report having experienced sexual dating violence in the last year. Not only is this data staggering, it's concerning and it's heartbreaking. Furthermore, teens often think some behaviors like teasing and name-calling are a normal part of a relationship. However, these behaviors can become abusive and develop into serious forms of violence. Many teens do not report unhealthy behaviors because they are afraid to tell family and friends.
- Courtnie Thomas
Person
One key tool and opportunity that's available to tackle IPV and TDV is education about developing healthy, respectful, and nonviolent relationships, including resources available to youth should they find themselves in an abusive relationship. IPV starts early and continues throughout people's lives. Therefore, the curriculum and information provided to teens of young adults during their time in school is critical. For these reasons, CBHA hopes that the members of this committee will vote in support of this bill. Thank you so much for your time.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. Is anybody here who would also like to testify in support of the measure? Seeing none, is there anybody who'd like to testify in opposition to the measure? Sign of a good measure. Seeing none, let's come back to the dais. I've got a motion from Senator Glazer. That's encouraging. Comments, questions from my colleagues? No. Would you like to close?
- Scott Wilk
Person
Absolutely. First of all, I want to thank Ms. Thomas for coming. I apologize for keeping you waiting, and she did a great job presenting you data so you're comfortable voting for this bill. So that's great. So my wife used to work--she didn't work--she volunteered for a nonprofit that went into schools and taught HIV education.
- Scott Wilk
Person
It's a three-day program. I think this is totally appropriate to be in there with everything else that they're learning, and I know that program was effective, and I think this is a great place to put it, so thank you guys for bringing this forward to the Assemblyman, and I respectfully ask for an aye vote.
- Josh Newman
Person
Thank you. We have a motion from Senator Glazer, who's in the sprinter's position by the door. Madam Consultant, please call the roll.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item 19: AB 2053: Mathis: motion is do pass to Senate Appropriations Committee. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
All right, that measure has five votes. Thank you to everybody who has closed out. We will leave the roll open for the time being. I guess. Yeah. Let's open the roll for Senators Wilk and Cortese. Madam Consultant, please work your way through it at your leisure.
- Committee Secretary
Person
Okay. On the consent items, [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
Okay, that measure now has five votes. We'll continue to hold it open, please. Next.
- Committee Secretary
Person
Okay. File Item Seven: AB 1160: Pacheco. Motion is do pass to Senate Judiciary Committee. The current vote is two ayes and one no, with the Chair voting aye. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
Okay, that measure still--it's three to one. We'll leave it open. Next, please.
- Committee Secretary
Person
Okay. File Item 13: AB 1841: Weber. Motion is do pass to Senate Health Committee. Current vote is four ayes and no noes. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
The measure has five votes. We'll leave it open.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item 14: AB 1891: Weber. Motion is do pass to Senate Appropriations Committee. Current vote is three ayes and no noes, with the Chair voting aye. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure has five votes. We'll leave it open for now.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item 16: AB 1947: Luz Rivas. Motion is do pass to Senate Human Services Committee. Current vote is three ayes and no noes, with the Chair voting aye. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure has five votes. Four is not against. We'll leave it open for now. Okay, well, thank you to all the members who are finished, and we'll leave the roll open for the two absent members, and we'll wait patiently for them. So if you are a member of this committee, you have yet to vote, we look forward to having you back down in Committee Hearing Room 2100. To the rest of you, good day.
- Josh Newman
Person
All right, we're going to recess for the time being and wait for the two absent members.
- Josh Newman
Person
Welcome back, Senator Gonzalez. Madam consultant, please reopen the roll and proceed.
- Committee Secretary
Person
Okay, on the consent calendar, [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
The consent calendar is out seven votes to zero.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item One: AB 1955: Ward. Current vote is four ayes and two noes, with the Chair voting aye. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure is out five votes to two.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item Two: AB 359: Holden. Current vote is five ayes and no noes, with the Chair and Vice Chair voting aye. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure is out seven votes to zero.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item Seven: AB 1160: Pacheco. Current vote is three ayes and two noes, with the Chair voting aye. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure's out five votes to two.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item 13: AB 1841: Weber. Current vote is five ayes and no noes, with the Chair and Vice Chair voting aye. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure's out seven votes to zero.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item 14: AB 1891: Weber. Current vote is five ayes and no noes, with the Chair and Vice Chair voting aye. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure is out seven votes to zero.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item 16: AB 1947: Luz Rivas. Current vote is five ayes and no noes, with the Chair and Vice Chair voting aye. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
That measure is out seven votes to zero.
- Committee Secretary
Person
File Item 19: AB 2053: Mathis. Current vote is five ayes and no noes, with the Chair and Vice Chair voting aye. [Roll Call].
- Josh Newman
Person
And that measure is out seven votes to zero, so thank you to my colleagues for being here, and we will adjourn in a moment. So welcome. You've come to an empty room which used to be a full room, but I'm glad to welcome a student group from the ACLU. A bunch of student advocates who've traveled to the Capitol today are here with us in the hearing room.
- Josh Newman
Person
Pleased to welcome students and parents from the ACLU Youth Liberty Squad, student representatives from the Black Parallel School Board, and the Black Students of California United. These students are here as part of an event to mark the 70th anniversary of the landmark Brown versus Board of Education decision and to lift up the ongoing inequalities and challenging facing California's Black students.
- Josh Newman
Person
Today, a new ACLU report card finds that California is still the third most segregated state for Black students in the United States. We have a lot more to do to improve equity in academic outcomes and opportunities, suspensions and arrest, student mental health, and so much more. Thank you, students, for being here and being great advocates for yourself and your peers. We will applaud you from the dais. You're very welcome.
- Josh Newman
Person
And with that, this hearing of the Senate Committee on Education is adjourned. Thank you to staff and special services for your help. Special sergeant services. Sergeants.