Assembly Standing Committee on Higher Education

Good afternoon. The Assembly Higher Education Committee is now called to order. We'll establish quorum and then we'll take roll call. Then I want to welcome everyone to the third policy hearing of the Assembly Higher Education Committee. Whether you're here in person or watching virtually, I extend a warm welcome to all of you.

Please note that assembler David Tangipa has been appointed by the speaker to fill the Republican vacancy on this Committee. Welcome to the Committee, Assemblymember Tangipa. Thank you. I will now go over some key elements of the structure of today's hearing.

As we proceed with the witnesses and public comment, I want to make sure that everyone understands that the Assembly has rules to make sure that we maintain order and run an efficient and fair hearing. We apply these rules consistently to all people who participate in our proceedings, regardless of the viewpoint they express.

In order to facilitate the goal of hearing as much from the public within the time limits that we have, we will not permit conduct that disrupts, disturbs or otherwise impedes the orderly conduct of legislative proceedings. We will not accept disruptive behavior or behavior that incites or threatens violence.

As you came into the hearing room today, the sergeants directed your attention to the rules for public attendance and participation which are posted outside the door. The rules for today's hearing include no talking or loud noises from the audience. Public comment may be provided at the designated time and place as permitted by the Chair.

Public comment must relate to the subject of bills being discussed today and no engaging in conduct that disrupts, disturbs or otherwise impedes orderly conduct of this hearing. Please be aware that violations of these rules may subject you to removal or other enforcement actions.

Additionally, please note, while this hearing will not have phone testimony, we are accepting written testimony through the position letter portal on the Committee's website at Www.ahed.assembly.ca.gov. bills will be taken up in sign in order. However, Committee Members typically will present the bills after Non Committee Members authors. You can sign in at the Sergeant's desk in room 126.

Further, please note that the guideline for bills heard in this Committee is to allow for testimony from two lead witnesses in support and two lead witnesses in opposition to speak for no more than two minutes each.

Stakeholder groups and entities that are neither in support nor in opposition will be allowed to give testimony for no more than two minutes when I call for tweeners. If a measure has more than two entities in the tweener category, only two will be allowed to speak for two minutes each.

For Members of the Committee colleagues Members, since our hearings are public and some travel far to be here in respect of them and the author, please allow the author to complete their opening remarks regarding the Bill before making a motion so that the public has an idea of what the Bill is about.

If a motion is made during the author's opening remarks, I will simply state that the motion will be recognized at the appropriate time. Additionally, Members, if you like to respond to a roll call, ask a question, provide a comment, please be sure to activate your mic and speak into the mic for Authors the Bill is up today.

Authors. Each Member presenting today will provide an opening and a closing argument. As I previously stated, your lead witnesses will each have two minutes to provide testimony and we'll take up the consent calendar when we have a quorum. Please Note that also Dr. Jackson will be presenting Assembly Bill 409 by Dr.

Arambla at the appointed time and with that we'll get started. Our first one is item number eight by Summer Davies. Welcome presenting item number eight, Assembly Bill 587. Welcome assemb.

Good afternoon honorable Chair and Committee Members. Thank you for your time today. I want to start by saying thank you to the committee for your hard work on this bill. We're absolutely committed to continuing working together with the committee on this bill to ensure it's a great piece of policy.

AB 587 intends to add Veteran Representation to the California Student Aid Commission, also known as CSAC. CSAC is currently in charge of the California Military Department GI Bill program which serves members of our Cal Guard community.

We believe it's important to have a representative of that community to share their lived experiences navigating these services and to help us find pain points in the program. By creating more representation on the commission, we can help to further improve the services offered.

There are roughly 64,000 members of the veteran community being served across California's higher education institution. It's time we gave them a seat at the table in California's premier student aid organization. Thank you for your time and I ask for your aye vote. There are no witnesses.

Okay, are there witnesses in support in the hearing room? Are there witnesses in opposition in the hearing room? Are there tweeners in the hearing room? Colleagues, any questions or comments? Dr. Patel.

Hi Member Davies, thank you for presenting on this bill. As a member of the San Diego region, supporting our military and veteran communities is a priority for us. Appreciate that you're adding this, Member, you're proposing a bill to add this, Member.

Just out of curiosity, is there an issue with having an even number of members on a commission.

That's a great question. That was actually one of the concerns because we want to make sure it stays odd. So obviously when you're voting-- So what we wanted to do is these positions are appointed, almost every year, they change over and we were looking at the general public representation and there's a total of four.

So when one of them leaves, we could then go ahead and use that slot to go ahead and put in the veteran position.

So just to clarify, is that language already included that it would be replacing or is that an amendment that we can offer going forward?

We'll be putting amendments in there. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you so much. Any further comments? Thank you. We'll take the motion at the appropriate time when we have a quorum. But I appreciate the the sentiment there. Assemblymember, would you like to close, please.

Sure. Respectfully ask for an aye vote. Thank you very much.

A couple comments, really quick. Thank you so much, Assemblymember Davies, for bringing us forward this measure. And we know that our military and veterans hold such an important role in protecting our state and nation. And I believe that we need to ensure that representation on governing bodies in our state.

However, I'm also concerned with expanding the current size of the Student Aid Commission governing body to an even number, as you heard from Dr. Patel. But I'm prepared to support this measure today.

Thank you for working with my committee, the California Student Aid Commission and other stakeholders in order to address the concerns in pages 3 and 4 of the analysis. And with that, when we have quorum, I look forward to supporting a measure.

Great. And I want to also let all the members in the committee know as soon as we get that amendment in there. So that is a done deal. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Assembly Member. Next up, I'd like to welcome assembler Berman presenting Assembly Bill 791. Welcome, Assembly Berman. Item number 11. Welcome.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and colleagues. And I'm speaking slowly because I think I have some witnesses on their way up.

Welcome to your witnesses as well.

Thank you. All right. I would like to begin by thanking the Committee staff for their work on this Bill. Yeah, right there is great. I will be accepting the Committee's amendments described in the analysis.

I am proud to present AB791 which responds to research comparing cost of attendance figures to students actual expenses. Cost of attendance is the amount a higher education institution determines a student pays to attend for a given year, including tuition and non tuition expenses such as textbooks, housing, food, transportation and personal expenses.

A student's cost of attendance budget is an important figure because it determines the maximum amount of financial aid that students can receive. If the cost of attendance budget underestimates actual expenses, students are allowed to request an adjustment. AB791 would ensure more accurate cost of attendance budgets by using an objective standard for housing costs.

This Bill would also improve students access to financial aid by notifying students of the adjustment process and making this process easier for them to navigate.

I respectfully ask for an aye vote and with me today is Erin Clews, a student at UC Santa Cruz, and Jessica Petrouws, Director of Education at John Burton Advocates for Youth, who's here to answer technical questions and also provide testimony. Thanks.

Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Jessica Petros. I'm the Director of Education at John Burton Advocates for Youth. We recently conducted research finding that over half of California's colleges and universities utilize a cost of attendance budget that are lower than regional costs, leaving students with financial aid packages that underestimate their actual living expenses.

This leaves students to cover the difference through working support from family, private borrowing, or even dropping out entirely. This can disproportionately impact students with less generational wealth, like low income students, students with experience in foster care, and student parents. Students are allowed to request a cost of attendance adjustment if their actual expenses exceed their budget.

However, we uncovered that nearly 2/3 of institutions did not make these policies publicly available on their websites, leaving most students unaware that these policies even exist. To improve the accuracy of cost of attendance budgets and ensure more transparent and student friendly cost of attendance adjustment policies, I respectfully, respectfully ask for your a vote for AB 791.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. Welcome.

Good afternoon. My name is Erin Clews. I am a former foster youth and a current student at UC Santa Cruz. When I transferred to UC Santa Cruz three years ago, I was so relieved to learn that I had earned a $15,000 scholarship that I desperately needed to cover my living costs as a single parent of two children.

I was so disappointed to learn, however, that I would have to turn down $10,000 of the scholarship because it had exceeded my cost of attendance budget, leaving me to accrue $5,000 in credit card debt and $5,000 in student loans.

The cost of attendance budget did not accurately reflect my actual costs and no one had ever informed me that I could request a cost of attendance adjustment to increase my budget. It wasn't until my last year at UC Santa Cruz that I would learn about cost of attendance adjustment policies.

And it was only by chance, through a friend. At that point, it was too late for me to utilize what was remaining of my scholarship. Had I known about this process sooner, I could have utilized my full scholarship and I could have graduated without debt.

It is for these reasons that I urge your support of AB791 to help ensure that other students like me can more easily access the financial aid that they need.

Thank you so much. Are there witnesses and support in the hearing room?

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members, David Nevin on behalf of the Institute for College Access and Success, in support.

Good afternoon, chair and members, McKenna Jenkins, on behalf of NextGen California, in support.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Rebecca Vega. On behalf of VOICES and On The Move, I support.

Good afternoon. My name is Ty Mcdonald and I am a youth advocate with the VOICES Youth Pograms and on the behalf of the Voices Youth Programs and California Competes, I am in support of AB. Oh my God. 9, 791.

Thank you.

My name is Arian Alejandro Lopez Ortega. I'm a former student at the Napa Valley College and I am supportive of AB 791.

Thank you.

Hello. Oh, hello and good afternoon. My name is Diego Meyer. I am a former student in Napa County and I do agree with this 791.

Thank you.

My name is Darrell Ramboll. I am a former student from Fresno State University and I am in support of AB 791.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Alicia Dominguez. I am a current student at Cosumnes River College and I am in support of AB 791.

Thank you.

Hello. Katrina Linden on behalf of Young Invincibles in support of AB 791. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Chely Saens,. I'm the External Affairs Vice President at the University of California, Davis and I'm with the University of California Student Association and we are in support. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Andrew Jower. I'm a student at UC Davis and here with the University of California Student Association and I also support this Bill.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Anna Marie Lopez. I am a student at UC Davis and also part of the UC Student Association and I support this bill.

Thank you.

My name is Sophia Isabel Galuz. I'm a student at UC Davis and I'm under the UC Student Association and I support AB 791.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, chair, members. Vincent Rosso with the UC Student Association. We are in strong support and proud cosponsor of AB 791. We kindly ask for your aye vote. Thank you.

Hello, chair and members. My name is Candace Ban. I'm a student at UC Davis. I'm also part of UC Student Association and I support bill 791. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, chair and members. My name is Anika Yu. I'm here with the UC Students Association and I'm a first year at UC Berkeley. I support this bill.

Good afternoon, board. My name is Vivianna Patino. I'm the Legislative Director at UC Santa Cruz and I'm here to ask for your support on the bill and urge your aye vote as well. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Chair Fong, members, Adriani Silvano with the University of California Student Association. We are in strong support AB 791. We are proud cosponsor. We respectfully request your aye vote.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Angela Negley and I'm a student at UCI and I'm here with the UC Student Association and I'm asking for your support on this Bill.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Ariana Gonzalez-Alcazar and I'm here with the UC Student Association. I'm a UC Riverside student and I strongly support AB 791. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Wednesday Pope and I'm california college student and chair of the California Youth Empowerment Commission. As a student and former foster youth who was denied financially due to inaccurate cost of attendance, I'm here to voice my support of AB 791. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Blanca Godoy and I'm a current student at USC and I'm also a policy fellow with uAspire and we are in support. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. and members, Parshan with uAspire. We're in strong support. Thank you for authoring this legislation.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Cartin Heaney. I'm here in support of AB 791. I flew with the nonprofit organization Sanctuary of Hope. Also the Black Student Union of West Los Angeles Community College.

Thank you.

Hello everyone, my name is Anthony Thornton with the UC Student Association and we are in support. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Are there witnesses in opposition in the hearing room?

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members, Jessica Duong with the University of California here in respectful opposition to AB 791. The University completes cost of attendance surveys every two years to estimate the total cost of attendance at UC campuses including the day to day expenses of students. And this information directly influences financial aid programs and policies.

Students are eligible for a variety of grant and loan programs and typically there are a portion of the costs that are covered by the student and their parents. UC covers the remaining costs with gift aid. Each campus determines the student's total grant eligibility and meets it using federal, state, and UC's own gift aid programs.

AB 791 requires a different cost of attendance methodology, by assuming students living off campus don't share a bedroom. Our own internal cost of attendance survey show that most students do share a bedroom, which is reflected in our methodology.

UC estimates that the cost of attendance method in AB 791 would increase unmet need by over $350 million per year, with the amount increasing each year. UC simply does not have the ability to cover this gap and the unmet need would be expanded to costs that some students don't actually incur.

The University is now facing significant threats to funding. The proposed state budget would cut our budget by 8% or $396 million. Additionally, the University is facing uncertainty regarding the over 17 billion in federal funding that supports the University's mission of teaching, research, and public service.

Already we have identified more than 300 million in canceled or postponed federal grants. For these reasons, we must respectfully oppose AB 791. Thank you.

Thank you. Welcome.

Good afternoon, chair and members, Alex Graves of the Association of Independent California Colleges and Universities, representing over 80 independent nonprofit colleges in the state. We have an oppose, unless amended, position on the bill. Appreciate the desire and goals to ensure student expenses and the cost of attendance are as accurate as possible.

We do believe, as written, the bill is overly prescriptive and pushes standardized calculations for consistency purposes without necessarily making the cost of attendance figures more accurate.

I do want to state that we don't take issue with the idea of ensuring the cost of attendance appeals processes are communicated to students, and we believe that section 694, 375c, and d, are largely aligned with existing federal requirements.

We also appreciate the committee analysis suggesting an amendment to recognize the practical need for a reasonable deadline for cost of attendance adjustment requests on page nine of the analysis

We do align ourselves with the concern noted in the analysis regarding the mandated 14 day turnaround, though the goal is always to respond to student appeals as quickly as possible.

Our biggest concern that's not noted in the analysis is centered around the requirement that we use a single data point for calculating this off campus housing as specified in the bill. We simply don't want to be locked into a single data point as mandated in the legislation.

Our colleges may look at SEARS, which is funded by the state and done by the Student Aid Commission every couple of years. They may look at HUD data. They may also look at their own student surveys as well, and other local housing data, while also trying to kind of best determine which area or areas the students are actually residing in off campus housing.

With all that said, appreciate the conversation we've had with the author's office and proponents, but at this time, we must respectfully oppose the bill as written. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Are there any other witnesses in opposition in hearing room? Are there tweeners in the hearing room? Colleagues, any questions or, I'm sorry, we have a tweener. Thank you.

Hi, good afternoon. Maggie White with the California State University. We don't yet have a position on the bill. We do have some concerns largely aligned with what you've heard from the opposition, particularly the 14 day turnaround as was highlighted in the analysis. We've had great conversations with the author's office and sponsors. I'm sure we'll continue to do so. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Colleagues, any questions or comments? Yes, Dr. Patel.

Thank you for bringing this bill forward. I do have a few questions as we consider this bill. One is you mentioned the objective standard for housing is that, does that affect local cost of living and is it going to be tailored towards that? Because I know it's, living in Merced is very different than living in San Diego is very different than living in Berkeley.

Great question. Thank you for the question. So as we know, the greatest variation in cost of attendance budgets is in housing costs, even for the school, even for schools in the same geographic area where costs should be comparable.

So for example, there's a $14,000 difference between the cost of attendance at Riverside City College and at UC Riverside. So it's important that these budgets and housing costs are accurate to the region where the institution is located.

To your point, AB 791 would establish a standardized method for calculating off campus rental housing costs based on the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development's fair market rents. These fair market rent figures are updated annually.

Annually and provide reliable objective and current rental cost estimates for each county and metropolitan statistical area in California, which is a technical term. So by relying on HUD's fair market rents data, the bill would ensure that student housing costs are calculated accurately and consistently in the state and I don't know if. Done.

Thank you. That's helpful. Another. Is it okay if I?

Yes, please.

Another question I have is certainly one brought up by your opposition which is around roommate status. Just looking at how students typically live. Having been a college student and raising college students.

Definitely roommates are involved in that calculation and it provides more realistic view of what that budget should look like. Are roommates being considered as the default standard rather than the unusual standard?

Yeah. So I think roommates are the calculus for some students. But the demographics of today's college students have changed significantly over the last 30 years. And so nationally, 34% of college students are over the age of 25. 80% are employed and 30% work full time. Additionally, 18% have children or other dependents.

So in recognition of these shifting realities, AB 791 proposes establishing a housing budget that would actually allow for students to have their own bedroom to better align with the needs of an increasingly diverse and financially independent student population that we're seeing in California schools.

But I do remain committed to working collaboratively to refine this provision to ensure its practical implementation.

Yeah, certainly I would have concerns with looming budget cuts. I just came out of budget sub 3. So looking at the cuts that our UCs and our CSUs are facing, we'd want to make sure that we keep our systems as whole as possible while providing students the supports that they need and the realistic viewpoint.

This was the wrong goal to present to you if you just came out of a budget sub three hearing. so I fully appreciate that. And I fully appreciate the UC's concerns with their budget and the uncertainty regarding state budget, regarding federal grants.

So I'm committed to continue to working with them on the Bill to look for ways to reduce costs. Absolutely.

Thank you.

That was terrible timing. That was really quite unfortunate.

Yeah, it was just today, right chair?

Yes, we had a meeting earlier today. Appreciate that.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Dr. Patel. Any further questions or comments? Seeing none, Assembly Member Berman, would you like to close please?

Respectfully ask for your aye vote. Appreciate the conversation. We'll continue. I didn't even know because I didn't look at my prep material that UC and AICCU and these are groups I work with a ton on a lot of issues. So we're going to continue working with them to do everything that we can to assuage their concerns. Don't know if I said assuage right, but that's okay.

Yes, you did. And thank you so, thank you so much, Berman, for bringing forward this measure. We know that students need to have the most accurate information possible when it comes to knowing their total financial aid package and the true cost of attendance. And also we've heard from some of the segments here today.

We express concerns over some provisions of the measure. Thank you for in advance for continuing to work with my committee staff, the segments, as we move this measure forward. With that, I look forward to supporting the measure today. When we have a quorum, we'll take this measure up. Thank you.

Thank you, chair.

Thank you, sir.

Next up, I'd like to welcome Assemblymember Pacheco, presenting Item Number 12, Assembly Bill 850. Welcome.

Welcome, Assemblymember Pacheco.

Thank you. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and Members of the Committee. I am here today to present Assembly Bill 850. AB 850 will boost college access across our straight—our state—strengthen consumer protections and increase transparency on institutional debt.

Institutional debt, money owed directly to colleges and universities, can block students from continuing their education and even harm them financially, making it harder for students to secure employment, housing, and other services. This Bill takes a balanced approach that protects students, while supporting higher education institutions' ability to utilize various resources.

AB 850 grants students with institutional debt a one-term grace period to re-enroll in coursework, while they arrange to repay their debt, which must include entering into a payment plan with their school.

With students back on campus and making progress toward their degrees, institutions will have increased opportunities to recoup these debts, while also receiving federal and state financial aid resources for the current term.

My Bill also prohibits reporting institutional debt to credit reporting agencies, protecting students from years of negative credit impacts, even after debts are repaid, while preserving other collection tools that schools may need.

Additionally, AB 850 increases transparency, by requiring schools to publicly disclose their debt collection policies, ensure compliance with consumer protection laws, and report data, so that policymakers and the public can make—better protect students. I want to be clear that this Bill does not do any of the following. Does not cancel any debt.

Does not prevent colleges from collecting what they are owed. Does not remove students from responsibility to repay. Does not allow a student to continue to accumulate more debt. Across California, more than 3.9 million borrowers owe nearly 148 million in student loan debt. Institutional debts have ballooned, affecting more than 750,000 low-income students.

We are here today to shed light on this unexpected barrier to education and present a solution. With me today, to testify in support, is Stephanie Cartney, a student at UCLA, and Professor Charlie Eaton, Associate Professor of Sociology at UC Merced. I'm now going to hand it over to my witnesses to testify.

Thank you so much. Welcome.

Thank you. Good morning, Chair and Members of the Committee. My name is Stephanie Cartney and I'm a senior at UCLA and an Advocate with Young Invisibles and a Basic Needs Officer with UCSA. I'm a proud constituent of Dr. Sharp-Collins, and I'm here to share my institutional debt story. I was really unsure about sharing this story.

However, I realized this is an issue that too many students face each year, leaving our dreams deferred. I was a freshman during the peak of the Pandemic. Like many, the stressors of COVID forced me to step away from my college journey. Despite being reassured that I would face no negative repercussions, two months later, I received a $9,000 bill for a university grant.

This was debt I never expected to have. The only solution offered to me was to repay $4,000 immediately, before I could even enter a payment plan. My mother was forced to go into debt, in order to help me move forward.

I was forced to take an entire year off to work off my debt. I was thrown off my major pathways and I was cut off from all campus health resources I actually needed. Once I returned, the pressure didn't stop. To stay on track to graduate, I had to take summer classes during my third year.

That summer, my mom's health declined significantly. I wanted to be with her, but I was told that if I stepped away again, I'd have to repay financial aid again, and my graduation would be delayed once more.

I stayed at UCLA, worked towards my degree, knowing my mom was miles away and I couldn't be there for her when she needed me. Institutional debt and the fear of more debt and delayed graduation forced me to make a choice no student should have to make—my family or my future.

Despite this, I'm now proud to share that I'm weeks away from graduating from UCLA. Our universities aim to support the whole student, yet when students are facing real life struggles, we're left without the vital safety nets needed to achieve our dreams.

I urge your "Aye" vote for AB 850, which would remove unnecessary barriers from re-enrollment and create pathways for students, like me, to return to school and graduate. This Bill would ensure that a temporary setback doesn't become a permanent roadblock. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Welcome.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and Members of the Committee. I am an Economic Sociologist and Professor at UC Merced, where I co-authored the Creditor College's study of institutional student debt, with UC Irvine Law Professor, Dalia Jimenez, and Berkeley Law Professor, Jonathan Blader.

Our research shows that AB 850 will help students succeed and bolster University finances, at a time that we are all under threat. As you heard from Stephanie's story, institutional debts work differently than student loans and they tend to be more harmful. 300,000, mostly low-income, Californians incur these debts in an average year.

AB 850 will help them to complete their education and it will help our higher education segments to bring in additional revenue. Here's why. Most students incur institutional debts when they withdraw from school in the middle of an academic term, just as you heard was the case for Stephanie. They typically withdraw because of a health or economic hardship.

Schools are required to return some of these funds—some of these students' Pell Grant and loan aid to the US Department of Education. Most schools then place registration holds that bar further enrollment, until students repay their federal aid to the school.

AB 850 would grant students a one-time grace period to re-enroll for an academic term after incurring a debt. Contrary to some misunderstandings, nothing in this Bill absolves a student of their responsibility to repay their debt or to pay their tuition for the term in which they are enrolling.

In fact, if a student stays enrolled in the grace period, the school would receive revenue from tuition, state funding, and federal financial aid programs that is typically larger than the student's outstanding debt. That makes this policy and legislation revenue positive.

Lastly, AB 850 will increase transparency and ensure that students credit scores are not damaged because of an institutional student debt. This is a balanced approach to protect students, while helping schools to keep them enrolled when hardships create unexpected debts. Thanks for the opportunity to speak with you and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Thank you so much. We're going to take a momentary pause here to establish quorum. Madam Secretary, roll call please.

[Roll Call]

We have six members present. Thank you so much, colleagues. Thank you for your patience. We're going to take up the consent calendar at this time. Madam Secretary, if you can call the consent calendar, please. I'm sorry, can we get a motion on the consent calendar, please?

I'll make a motion.

We have a motion and a second.

Yep.

Any discussion? Seeing non. Secretary. Madam Secretary, roll call please on the consent calendar.

[Roll Call]

That measure has six ayes. The consent calendar is out and we'll keep the row open for additional members to add on. Now we can go through our prior items and then we'll come back to Ms. Pacheco.

[Roll Call]

I'm sorry, we're on item 12 now. The prior items are, please. Thank you. Well, which one? Let's do the Assemblymember Davies first. So item number eight, item to rate. Assembly Bill 587. Can we get a motion and a second on that, please? We have a motion. A second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, Madam Secretary. Roll call please on item number 8.

[Roll Call]

Item number eight. Assembly Bill 587. By Davies. Yes. Okay. I'm sorry. She said aye.

[Roll Call]

That measures six ayes. And we'll keep the rope. And for additional Members? It's out as well, but we'll keep the ropen for. For additional Members. Add on next up is item number 11, Assembly Bill 791 by Assembymember Berman. Can we get a motion on that, please? We have a motion. Do we have second? Second. So we have a motion to second. Any further discussion? Seeing none. Madam Secretary, roll call please on item number 11.

[Roll Call]

Thank you colleagues. That measure six ayes and it's out. We'll keep the roping for additional members to add on. And thank you everyone for your patience. There are a lot of committees going on this afternoon and appreciate all my colleagues and everyone here for their patience. We'll now resume with Ms. Pacheco. So we heard from our lead witnesses.

Are there additional witnesses in support in the hearing room for Assembly Bill 850? Item number 12, please come to the microphone, please. Please state your name, organization and position, please.

Good afternoon. Maria Flores here on behalf of the Consumer Federation of California, Long Beach CD College and Cal State Student Association in support.

Hi, Kimberly Sanchez with NextGen California. A proud co sponsor and in support and also on behalf of Student Debt Crisis Center and Student Borrower Protection Center in strong support. Thank you.

Good afternoon. Sarah Bouabibsa on behalf of the Institute for College Access and Success and support.

Good afternoon. Katrina Linden with Young Invincibles. Proud to be a co sponsor and proud to support this bill. Thank you.

Good afternoon. Liana Liang from Asian Americans Advancing Justice Southern California in strong support.

Good afternoon. My name is Chely Saens. I'm from the University of California Davis in the UC Student Association and we are in strong support. Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Andrew Jower, I'm from UC Davis and with the UC California Student Association and I'd like to offer my support. Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Sophia Isabel Galuz here under the UC Student Association and a student at UC Davis and I support.

Good afternoon chairs and members. My name is Annamarie Lopez. I am a current student at UC Davis and a Member of the UC Student Association and I support this.

Eric Paredes with the California Faculty Association in support.

Hello Chair and members Vincent Rosso with UCSA. We're a proud co sponsor and as. An alumni from UC Riverside with a personal story in institutional debt struggles, I proudly support this bill as well. Thank you.

Good afternoon, my name is Skylar Powell, I am with ABC and Stan State University and I am in support and encourage you to vote I.

Good afternoon, my name is Alana Kaylee Pitts. I'm from CSU Stanislaus State and I'm with ABC as well and I urge you to vote aye.

Good afternoon, my name is Chioma Chabucco, I'm here with ABC and I'm a student at Stan State as well too and I urge you to vote aye.

Good afternoon Chair and members, My name is Alicia Yancey. I'm a volunteer with Afrikan Black Coalition or ABC for short and we are in strong support of this bill and urge an aye vote.

Alex Hookus we have the Associated Students of Sacramento City College in support.

Hello, I'm a student with USC and I'm also a policy fellow with uAspire and we are in support of this bill. Thank you.

Good afternoon. Parshan Khosravi with uAspire and Northern California College Promise Coalition in support.

Good afternoon Chair and members, Adrian Silvano with the University of California Student Association. We respectfully request your aye vote and AB850.

Hello everyone, my name is Anthony Thornton with the UC Student Association and we are in support.

Hello, my name is Candice Fan, I'm a student at UC Davis and I'm supporting this bill.

Good afternoon and I'm a student at UC Riverside and I'm in support for AB 850.

Hello, my name is Angela and I'm a student at UC Irvine and I also requested your support for this bill.

Hi, my name is Jasmine Kuderlarian and I'm a student at UC Davis and I support AB850. Thank you.

My name is Annika Yu. I'm a student at UC Berkeley and I support AB850. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Viviana Patino. I'm the Legislative Director at UC Santa Cruz, and I am in support of AB50.

Good afternoon. I'm Dennis Ciara, a student at UC Davis, and I support this bill.

Thank you so much. Are there witnesses in opposition in the hearing room?

Welcome.

Hello. Thank you. Oh, can you hear me? Perfect. Good afternoon everyone. I'm Maggie White with the California State University and I apologize for having my back some of y'all. I'm here today in respectful opposition to AB 850. I'd first like to thank the author, her staff, and the sponsors for working with us closely.

While we do have fiscal concerns with the bill, in a year that we're facing an 8% cut as well as a deferral of the 5% compact funding, I'll focus my comments on the policy perspective related to the one-time exemption. First of all, we absolutely agree at CSU that minor costs like a parking ticket or a lost library book should not derail a student's path to graduation. We've had a system-wide administrative barriers workgroup that has identified these minor costs as being an unnecessary roadblock to student success.

And we've asked that our 23 campuses raise the bar for what constitutes a hold on registering for classes or re-enrolling at the university. We do want to allow our campuses to set that number at a range they feel comfortable temporarily absorbing.

But the huge majority of our campuses now have it set so that a hold on registration only happens if a student has a debt over a few $100. So we're starting to make that shift on our own. But we do believe our campuses should have the authority to set that number, particularly in this difficult budget environment.

Secondly, and lastly, I believe the priority of the bill is actually the higher dollar institutional debts that occur when students leave mid semester and under federal law owe back a proportionate amount of their Pell Grant to the US Department of Education. While we're not required to do so, our campuses front that money back to the Federal Government so that students are not dealing directly with the bureaucracy of the Federal Department of Education.

We believe it's reasonable to ask students with these institutional debts in the low thousands of dollars to agree to a payment plan with the institution in order to re-enroll. And of course we want those students to come back and finish their academic journey with us. But we unfortunately cannot afford to absorb that cost. To really solve that problem, we believe you would need a federal solution. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Welcome.

Hello again. Alex Graves, the ICCU, on behalf of our 80 plus member institutions throughout the state. Also want to begin by just noting that we also share the goals around ensuring students graduate, and they do so without barriers and without substantial debt.

Our colleges do largely work in a flexible manner with students who owe institutional debts for whatever reason. Affordability is very important to our institutions. In our sector, if you're a Cal Grant recipient, you're receiving on average about $29,000 a year in institutional grant aid. And our net tuition and fees paid has actually gone down about $500 over the last 10 years.

I do want to say that we have no issues with the section of the bill that proposes we have written policies or that those policies conform to specific consumer protection standards, or that we provide itemized list of the debts owed, as well as that we make those policies available to students and publicly available online.

Similar to my counterpart from CSU, you know, we also are fronting those dollars owed to the Federal Government when students owe federal funds back because they withdraw. And we do have some remaining concerns that that does create additional financial liabilities for our institutions, which are all not for profit entities. And given that we have very few other mechanisms in place to compel students to work with us to settle those accounts, we do respectfully remain opposed at this time. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Other witnesses in opposition in the hearing room.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair Matt Back representing California Association of Private Post Secondary Schools, also in opposition.

Thank you.

Good afternoon again, my name is Jessica Duong with the University of California, also in opposition to AB 850.

Thank you.

Hello. Nune Garipian with the Community College League of California in respectful opposition. Thank you.

Good afternoon. Justin Selnick, on behalf of the California Community College Chancellor's Office. We do not have an official position at this time, but we appreciate the discussions we've had with the sponsor and the author and we'll continue to work with them going forward.

Thank you. Just for the record, I think that's what we call a tweener category. So are there any additional tweeners in the hearing room? But thank you for your testimony. Colleagues, any questions or comments? Mr. Tangipa.

Thank you. And I want to thank the author too. I understand the story that the student presented as well. When I was in college, due to financial hardships, I actually ended up homeless. And so I understand that there are a lot of struggles that happen both with the family and with the institution.

My question is actually towards the opposition. The current process right now. And what I heard is with if a student drops out and they're qualified for the Pell Grant or the federal one, it is required to pay that back. And the institution, the higher education institutions right now usually pay that and then go back and backfill and try to get recuperate the cost from the student.

If I may. Yes, sir, thank you for the question. And you've described it absolutely accurately. We don't want our students to have to deal with having a direct debt to the Federal Government, so we fill that money for them. In the eyes of the U.S. Department of Education, it's paid. No debt.

We take on that liability of the debt, a benefit of doing that for the student. While they do have that institutional debt now with their CSU campus or any other campus, they're able to go enroll at any other campus and still get Pell Grant. Because in the eyes of the Federal Government, you have no debt to us.

It's been paid, and that's a benefit that we want to keep for our students. But we are very worried about losing one of those internal mechanisms of collecting that debt that we've paid forward and removing that liability for universities.

Do you think that this bill would prevent higher education institutions from wanting to pay off that federal debt and then the Federal Government will then have to go after the student to pay that?

Thanks for the. Sure. Thanks for the question. I think for us, obviously, it's going to, I think, be an institution by institution determination, since all our colleges are independently operated. Right. And so there's going to be a decision criteria that will depend on, right.

Like what's the level of resources available, you know, financial backing through endowments and other such purposes. What's the total volume of the unpaid debts owed? I can tell you, for us, when we looked at this, I think last year, we found that the average amount owed by a student or former student was about $4,700 with an average amount per institution about 6.3 million. So that's certainly significant. And that's with other remedies in place. Right. Like registration holds, for example.

And just to be clear, you know, in institutions, it's not, in every instance, we're just withholding your registration until the debt is paid. In some instances, right. It's. It's a backstop in case we've sent three emails and a text and we don't hear back from the student because ultimately we're trying to have a conversation with that student to be like, was there a loss of income in your family and we need to repackage your aid?

Did you have some kind of, you know, did your car get totaled and now you don't have transportation? Right. And so to the CSU's point, you know, our institutions are also largely fronting that money to the Federal Government. And, you know, we don't have to do that. I think to your question, it will be a financial calculation based on the underlying realities of each institution.

That is my big concern is that as we're moving into more budget difficulties, that the CSUs and higher education institutions can't cover that, especially if there's no incentive to work or even to find the student, that it creates a California solution and a federal problem that now the student will have to go and try to solve issues with the Federal Government if they want to go to a different higher institution.

And I think my colleagues agree on the federal side, that's probably not where they're going to want to go when they're looking, especially with the ambiguity of what's happening at the federal level. So that gives me some fairly large concerns, especially, I think CSUs. And I couldn't be more grateful for higher education changing my life. And it's a huge reason why I'm here today. So I, you know, this is something that I'll definitely think about and I really appreciate you answering that. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you so much. Assemblymember Rodriguez.

Do you have data or information about payback? Whether or not a student who might be prohibited from moving forward with their education even will have the ability to pay that debt versus someone who is able to continue their education, get a degree, and earn a higher income and actually paying back the debt? Just because I think there's some propositions here that it doesn't get paid back. But I imagine supporting someone to have an income would support paying it back.

Yeah, no, that's right. And this gets at some of the irrationality of the current policies that this bill is trying to encourage a step in a different direction. So it's about 25% of these debts ever get repaid. And that's mainly because it's very hard for students if they can't complete a degree to repay the debt.

So currently, you know, there's nothing in the bill that prevents schools from going ahead and trying to collect on these debts. The one semester grace period really is a more rational approach for the institutions because as you heard, if Stephanie incurs this debt, which was incurred during a summer session and it was incurred, by the way, for a grant that UCLA used to pay itself for her campus housing.

And so they said because she had to leave in the middle of the semester and leave her campus housing, that she needed to pay the institution back for that housing. As you heard, that was not a feasible thing for her to do within a year. And what the grace period would do would say, okay, you can come back, Stephanie, next semester while you're making your payment arrangements.

And because we have fronted, in this case, there actually wasn't any debt fronted, but if they had fronted some of the debt back to the Federal Government, she could have re-enrolled, as she did successfully for multiple years afterwards with a Pell Grant.

That would have paid the institution more than she was owed or more than she owed the institution. I think the institutions in some ways are, are engaging in some motivated reasoning here because of fears about the bill, where they're looking for reasons to oppose the bill that don't really make sense.

And the last thing I'll just say on the data is that's a part of the bill. We have very little confidence in any of the numbers that have been provided by the institutions, in part because whenever we have submitted Public Records Act requests to us, they have said that they don't have any responsive records to actually give us the data that we're asking for.

And then they come to these hearings and give unsubstantiated accounts of how much funding is involved. I mean, as recently as January 13, the University of California told us it had no responsive records to tell us how much institutional debt it refers campus by campus each year to the Franchise Tax Board to sees students tax refunds if they have these debts.

Thank you for that additional information. I just want to thank you for sharing your story as well. I had a similar experience in the CSU system, and so I think a lot of us who were able to attain higher education and reach those barriers can understand how critical it is to not add additional barriers to completing our education. So thank you so much for sharing today.

Thank you so much. Assemblymember Muratsuchi.

Thank you. Ms. Pacheco, thank you for your bill. Thank you for fighting for students and their aspirations of being able to get a higher education despite all the costs, the obstacles that they face. And I plan on voting for your bill, but I do want to ask a few questions in hopes that you can work with the opposition to try to make it workable. Especially I'm biased for our public universities. And I'm looking at the University of California's opposition letter.

They're indicating the unpaid student debt currently totals nearly $75 million per year. And we just had a budget hearing this morning on the University of California where we were talking about the Governor proposing an 8% cut, $396 million budget cut, that, that is going to result in denying admission slots to our California kids.

Yeah, so $75 million is real money. And I wanted to see how you can work with the universities to make sure that on the one hand, we give students the opportunities to advance, earn their degrees and to be able to pay back their debt. But at the same time, how do we address the realities of the budgets facing especially our University of California and our California State University?

Yes, thank you for the question. I also have the utmost respect for our universities and our UCs. I'm also a proud product of UCLA as well. It's because of my education received at UCLA that of course, I went on to Loyola Law School.

I have the most respect for our UCs, but I also want to make sure we protect our students. We have been in conversations. We've been in conversations since last year. I introduced the same bill last year. Our conversations have continued. They continue to happen.

And my office is always open, and we're looking forward to seeing amendments if necessary, so that way we can perfect this building even more. But always open to dialogue. Always open to conversations. My goal is to help students, which I know the opposition's goal is the same, to help our students.

I think we can hopefully get to a common ground. But these conversations, of course, are important. I don't know if Professor Eaton wants to add anything.

Yeah, I mean, the only thing I would add, I am a product of the UC system as well. I'm a UC Berkeley graduate. I work at University of California, Merced, where four of my colleagues yesterday had their National Science Foundation grants terminated arbitrarily and probably unlawfully by the Trump Administration.

I've been published in the New York Times in recent weeks calling for our state to backstop those cuts if you can, and calling for a robust legal strategy to challenge those cuts. This bill, I don't want those cuts to our NSF grants. I have an $800,000 NSF grant that may well be terminated in the coming days.

I don't want us to be balancing our budget on the backs of students. And I don't think most of my colleagues do either. And the thing about this bill is it is very likely revenue positive. And that's because, like you heard, Stephanie came back and started paying tuition again after resolving this debt.

She could have done that sooner. She had to wait a year to do it. She could have come back the next semester and paid. There's nothing in the bill that says you ultimately cannot collect on the debt. There's a one semester grace period that likely.

We know from in our lab talking to a lot of students impacted by these debts. If you get brought back on campus and you're talking to the campus folks about the resources available to you and how to repay the debt, you're actually going to be more likely to repay it.

The grace period, the reporting requirements are very important. I'm really glad to hear about the institutional voluntary change, but I think some of the things that are in the bill are very important. Our lab has found that there's 34 community colleges and one CSU that still say on their website that they withhold transcripts for students with institutional debts, which is against California State laws of 2020. So I think we need more than voluntary commitments.

We really need legislation to establish what the standards are and get more schools to be doing the best practices. Like what we heard from CSU about schools saying if it's below $750 or $500, you don't have a hold.

Thank you so much, Mr. Muratuschi. Any further questions or comments from colleagues? Seeing none, Assemblymember Pacheco, would you like to close, please?

Thank you. And thank you for the conversations. AB 850 takes a balanced approach to removing educational barriers and creating basic consumer protections for students. I remain committed to continuing to work with the opposition and address their concerns, as evidenced by how much this bill has evolved from its first iteration. And so I respectfully ask for an aye vote.

Thank you so much, Assemblymember, for bringing this measure forward and thank you for your leadership and efforts with AB 1160 last year. Supported that last year as well because I feel that students deserve opportunities to continue their education while addressing institutional debts.

Also want to acknowledge that since the bill has been introduced, I understand many institutions have modified their policies to help address this problem and applaud that decision. We've heard also from a number of colleagues, we face certain uncertain economic times.

We just had a robust Budget Sub Three Committee meeting this morning around the proposed cuts to the UC and CSU system and education. So these are cuts that we're trying to push back against. And we know that your office has been working with opposition to address their concerns. And I know that committee staff is also here to help however they can as well. And with that, I look forward to supporting the measure here today. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Colleagues. Do have a motion? Motion by Assemblymember Rodriguez. Do we have a second? Second by Assemblymember Jackson. Any further questions or comments? Seeing none, Madam Secretary, roll call please.

[Roll Call]

That measure has four ayes. One not voting. We'll keep the open for additional members to add on. Thank you so much, Assemblymember Pacheco.

Thank you.

Next up, I'd like to welcome Assembly Member Ahrens presenting item number seven, AB537. Welcome Assembly Member Ahrens.

Good afternoon Mr. Chair and Members. The California College Promise Program was created with the intention of reducing financial barriers in education by waiving tuition fees. Our California community colleges currently support 1.9 million students statewide and nearly 2/3 of them are part time students.

However, as it stands, part time students are not eligible for this program, creating a gap for who can benefit from this critical program; our College promise for all.

AB 537 will make California College Promise accessible to part time students by allowing California Community colleges to waive fees for all students regardless of whether they are enrolled part time or full time.

Expanding this program is critical to ensure that we are reaching the most students we can by giving the resources that they need to succeed in higher education. I'm a proud graduate of the California Community College system, was the first of my family to go to college.

Before being elected to this body in November, I was the President of the Foothill De Anza Community College Board of Trustees. I know how critically important it is to give as much local control and as much tools as we can to to one of the largest systems of higher education in the world.

And this is what this Bill does. It directly reaches to the heart of that matter.

I'm incredibly sympathetic to so many of the students who are supporting this Bill who had an experience like mine, who had an experience like Assemblymember Tangipa's, where the California Community College system is a safety net that catches so many students who had a bad cart dealt in their life and it gives them an opportunity to succeed.

With me today to discuss further is Annie Koruga, the Vice President of the Legislative Affairs Team for the Student Senate for California Community Colleges and the official voice of the California Community College students. And William Miller, a Professor of chemistry at Los Rios Community College.

I was a recipient of and benefited from the Promise Grant program. And I cannot underscore for you how great this program was for me, entering community college

it took a giant weight off mine my family's back that the State of California had decided they cared so much about the education of its population that they would cover my tuition.

Because of the Promise program, I was able to save money which I'm now applying to my concurrent enrollment at UC Berkeley and I will graduate with my Bachelor's debt free. Once I realized how great this program was, I took it upon myself to tell all of my friends in community college to enroll.

But I soon realized that many of them weren't eligible for the same benefits I was. Their ineligibility wasn't due to their lack of drive, their lack of care, not even their academic performance, not anything that they'd done wrong. Instead, it was because I had the privilege to be a full time student. And they did not.

Ironically enough, those students who can't afford to be full time are likely the ones that need this benefit the most. I've met many wonderful part time students, from student parents balancing taking care of their family and school to caregivers balancing familial obligations with their studies.

And those students would have had a much easier time academically if they'd been eligible for this grant. I wish you would have been able to hear from some of them today instead of me about their experiences with the Promise Grant. But unfortunately they're not eligible.

In fact, I looked at Data Mart and in the fall of 2024, just over 74% of our students took less than 12 units and thus were ineligible for the Promise Grant.

We need to expand this amazing program to part time students who are a majority of our students, so that California can say to them, like it said to me, that the state cares so much about their education too that they'll cover their tuition like they covered mine.

Thank you so much. Welcome.

Thanks for the opportunity to speak. My name is William Miller, Bill Miller, and I teach chemistry at Sacramento City College, which I've been doing part time and full time for approximately 25 years now.

I'm here to speak in support of AB537 and and as the previous speakers have mentioned, approximately 2/3 of community college students are part time students, including those students are those who have graduated from high school in the past two years.

I have talked to some of my students in my classes this semester I teach an undergraduate research class at Sac City College. In that class I have a student who also takes calculus 2 and has an internship lined up at Stanford this summer in cardiothoracic surgery.

She has to take care of her siblings which prevents her from being a full time student. She is just out of high school and she would benefit if this Bill is passed. I also teach a class called the Science of Coffee.

One of my students in that class is Nya, a student in her first year of college after high school who has to work to support herself. Nya is trying to figure out her path. She also has to support herself and taking care of herself prevents her from being a full time student.

She would also benefit from this Bill. Just before coming here, I was talking to our faculty Academic Senate Vice President. She was telling me her story. She worked her way through community college right after high school in three and a half years while taking nine units each semester. Not a full time student.

She supported herself and she said she wished they had had this program back when she had been a Student. Please support AB537 and expand the College Promise program to include part time students.

Thank you. Thank you so much. The science of coffee sounds amazing. Thank you. Are there witnesses in support in the hearing room? Tiffany. Sir, did you want to.

Tiffany Mock with CFT. We're proud to sponsor AB 537. Thank you.

Awesome. Thank you, Tiffany. Please state your name, organization and position. Thank you.

Hello. Nona Gariken on behalf of the Community College League of California, happy to support. Thank you.

Anna Matthews, on behalf of the Faculty Association of California Community Colleges and strong support. Thank you.

Alec Sarkissian on behalf of the Associated Students of Sacramento City College. In support.

Chair Members Austin Webster with W Strategies on behalf of the California Community College Independence in support.

My name is Andrew Jower and as a former transfer student who lived in his car, I'm in strong support of this Bill. Thank you. Thank you.

Good afternoon. Jason Henderson, California Edge Coalition in support.

Hi. Roger Mccoy, fifth grade teacher at Junction Elementary School in Palisidro, California. Strong support.

Daniel Flores, elementary school teacher with Ventura Unified and strong support.

Good afternoon. Lisa Hickman, Tustin Unified School District and support.

Hi, I'm Paula Kendrako from Hesperia Unified School District. Elementary educator, currently teaching kindergarten and I'm in support of this Bill.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. Jacqueline Dang, I'm a middle school special education teacher in East LA, Bole Heights and I'm in strong support.

Hello, my name is Eric Flores. I'm a school counselor in Healdsburg, California and I rise in support of this Bill. Thank you.

Shannon Roth, special education teacher from Ceres, California. Also a parent of community college students. Strongly in support.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. Magdalena Villalba, high school Spanish teacher from Fullerton, also in very strong support.

Good afternoon. Gabriel Allegra, San Mateo Foster City School District, elementary school teacher as rise in support. Thank you.

Good afternoon. I'm Linda Valdez. I teach first grade in Santa Clarita, California and I also rise in support of the Bill.

Thank you.

So I'm Xong Lor with the California Teachers Association. We're in support.

Justin Selnick on behalf of the California Community College Chancellor's office in support.

Thank you. Hello, my name is Javonic Casillas. I'm representing the Central Valley Institute. I'm an Assembly District 27. I'm in support.

Thank you. Are there witnesses in opposition in a hearing room? Are there tweeners in the hearing room? Colleagues, any questions or comments? you can, we have a motion and I'll second the Bill. So we have a motion in a second. Do you have any questions or comments someone would like to close, please?

Thank you. You heard the stories from many of the people in this room. We have 1.9 million community college students, 1.9 million stories that can attest to the need to provide more flexibility. So much of us are wanting to focus on affordability and creating greater access and opportunity in this higher education system.

I myself was a homeless college student. I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the California Community College system. And these part time students are exactly the type of students that we need to be reaching out and serving more. The vast majority of them.

I know many people in this room who graduated from a community college and we know folks who dropped out and couldn't graduate for one reason or another. And this Bill will catch so many students who are on the brink of dropping out of college altogether and waiting years and years to come back.

We have an opportunity to change lives with this Bill and I respectfully ask for your aye vote.

Thank you so much Assembler Ahrens, for your leadership and efforts on College Promise. And as a former trustee for the Los Angeles Community College District, I see some of my former colleagues in the audience.

I was part of the team to help advocate for Assembly Bill 2 and Assembly Bill in 19 then authored by a Summer of Santiago to make to help the College Promise program come to fruition.

And I really appreciate your leadership and efforts in looking out for the over 60% of our community college students who are attending part time. And this measure could assist them in potentially enrolling in more courses because of their financial burdens could be eased by being able to participate in this program.

However, as we heard from colleagues as well, it's a tremendous fiscal year as well. But really appreciate your leadership and efforts and working with my Committee, staff and appropriate stakeholders to address concerns as outlined in page four of the analysis. With that, I look forward to supporting the measure here today.

And thank you so much again for your leadership and efforts on the College California College Promise Program. Madam Secretary, roll call.

Please File item number 7. AB537. The motion is do pass to the Appropriations Committee. Fong I. Fong I. Dio. Berner, Jeff Gonzalez, Jackson, Mersucci Patel, Celeste Rodriguez, Sharpe, Collins, Tongipa. Aye.

That measure has two ayes. We'll keep the roll open for additional Members to add on. A lot of committees going on today. Thank you so much, Mr. Ahrens. Thank you to all the witnesses as well, for your patience as well. Next up, we have item number one, Assembly Bill 7 by Assembly Member Bryan.

I see a Majority Leader here as well, but we have the sign in order, Madam Majority Leader. Thank you. I appreciate everyone's patience. I know a lot of Members have been waiting patiently in the front row as well. So thank you so much for your patience here today. Assembly Member Bryan presenting Assembly Bill 7, item number one. Welcome.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and colleague. AB 7 is an incredibly important bill, especially for this time. I don't think in California's history or anywhere in the country we've seen anything quite like it. For over 13 generations, people who were enslaved in this country were unable to read and write, prohibited from reading and writing over 200 years. And then past emancipation, barred from attaining admissions, acceptance, or education at higher universities across the country.

That legacy is still felt in the afterlives of slavery that produce our literacy gaps, our school to prison pipeline. While all of this was happening, legacy admissions still existed. In fact, they still exist today. In many universities, if you are the descendant of a major donor, the descendant of a person who had previously attended an institution of higher learning, there is a preference or a prioritization in your admissions decisions. In fact, even here in California, we didn't get rid of privileged legacy admissions in our private universities until just last year.

All of this time, the literacy gaps and the education gaps have grown. And while we have prioritized legacies of privilege throughout our country's history, we have failed to prioritize legacies of harm and the legacy of enslavement. That's what this bill seeks to do. It seeks to authorize universities in California to consider whether somebody is a descendant of a chattily enslaved person in this country during their admissions decision process. It is not a guarantee of admission. It is a number.

It is one of many holistic and comprehensive considerations that can be taken into account when looking at the profile of a potential applicant. We've had a lot of questions about how this bill conflicts or doesn't conflict with affirmative action or Proposition 209. This bill is not about affirmative action, definitively. It is about reparative justice.

And I have two witnesses who can speak very clearly to that. One is Brandon Greene, attorney and the Director of Public Policy at the Western Center on Law and Poverty. And the other is Justin Ward, constitutional lawyer with the California Association of Black Lawyers.

Thank you so much. Welcome.

Thank you. Good afternoon, Committee Members. My name is Brandon Greene, and I'm the Director of Policy Advocacy at the Western Center on Law and Poverty. Previously, I was the Director of the Racial and Economic Justice Program with ACLU of Northern California.

In that role, I was honored to testify twice before the Reparations Task Force, once on homelessness and again on the importance of establishing the California Freedman Affairs Agency. It's a privilege to be here today in support of AB 7, a much needed step in the movement for repair in California.

As was well documented via the task force, California had an explicit role in perpetuating decades of harm on the descendants of chattel slaves, despite it being a free state. The consequences of that legacy of harm are clearly seen in the housing disparities, racialized wealth gaps, and systemic involvement in houselessness, to name a few.

Repair, justice, and equity demand that the cures for these ills center that same legacy. It's important to note that lineage is not race. Justice Thomas made this clear in his discussion of the Freedmen's Bureau and Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard, in which he explained that the intent and reach of the 1866 Freedmen's Bureau Act was to authorize the Bureau to care for all loyal refugees and freedmen. Importantly, however, the act supplied to freemen and refugees, a formerly race neutral category, not blacks writ large.

And because not all blacks in the United States were former slaves, freedmen was a decidedly uninclusive proxy for race. The same would hold for their descendants. This should be clear. As example, Barack Obama is not a descendant of slaves in America. And more importantly, there are others who may not at first blush look as though they could be descendants of slaves in America, although they are. Such is the history of America. Race is not the classification of this. This bill utilizes.

While different for various reasons, this is also clear through the prison of indigeneity and the existence of the UC Native American Opportunity Plan. This program does not utilize race, but one is. This program is one that does not utilize race, but one that relies on a historic political sovereign lineage of our indigenous family. Importantly, AB 7 does not impose a requirement, but gives universities additional admissions option.

Thank you so much. Welcome.

Good afternoon. My name is Justin Ward. I am, I'm an attorney with over 21 years of experience practicing law in the State of California, and I'm here on behalf of the California Association of Black Lawyers, or the acronym CABL. I'm gonna be referring to it as CABL, so you know what I'm talking about. CABL was formed in 1977 by black judges and attorneys to confront racism in the legal system and increase black representation in the profession.

Today, CABL represents more than 6,000 black attorneys, judges, law professors, and law students across the State of California. Our mission includes increasing black representation in the legal profession, and we know that begins with fair access to education. CABL is deeply committed to black educational equity because the pipeline into law school, the judiciary, and civil leadership, civic leadership, all begins in the classroom.

When black students are denied access to higher education, the impacts ripple throughout the justice system and our communities. AB 7 is needed because California's past is not exempt from the legacy of slavery. Though California entered the Union in 1850 as a free state, slavery was practiced here.

Many enslaved people were brought to California by their southern slave owners during the Gold Rush. They were forced to work in gold mines, cook, serve, and perform all the other services they previously performed on their southern plantations.

California also enacted its own Fugitive Slave Law of 1852 to support the return of slaves to their owners as well as encourage the southern slave owners to come to this state. In 1852, the California Supreme Court returned three former slaves to their owner who had previously left them when his, left them with his friend in California when his attempt at fortune during the Gold Rush failed.

Later in 1858, the California Supreme Court also upheld the forced return of Archy Lee, a slave brought here by his owner, returned him to his owner as well. Long after slavery was abolished, black children were excluded from public schools and denied opportunities for advancement.

These historical injustices were all rooted in slavery and created generational harm, the consequences of which remain visible today in educational attainment, income, health, and representation in the professions in various professions like law and the medical field. That's why CABL strongly supports AB 7.

This bill allows universities to consider whether an applicant is a descendant of American chattel slavery in admissions. As stated earlier, it does not use race as a factor. It strictly is based on lineage, a constitutionally significant distinction. The proposed legislation would permit these educational institutions to consider this status in admissions decisions, but only to the extent that such a preference does not conflict with federal law.

AB 7 is designed to provide a potential pathway for addressing historical injustices by offering a targeted admissions consideration for individuals whose ancestors were directly impacted by the systematic oppression of slavery in the United States. California has a long history of the enslavement of indigenous peoples, African Americans, and other individuals from diverse racial and ethnic backgrounds. Descendants of slavery have suffered generational harm and... Sorry, one more thing. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Are there witnesses in support in the hearing room?

I don't know if they heard you, Mr. Chair.

I'm sorry. Are there witnesses in support in the hearing room? If there are witnesses in the hearing room in support, please come on up. Please state your name, organization and position.

Hi, everyone. Kristen Nimmers, on behalf of the California Black Power Network with the Alliance for Reparations, Reconciliation and Truth, in support.

Tasha Henneman with the Black Leadership Council, in support.

Pat Parker representing the Black Equity Collective, in support.

Good afternoon everyone. Angela Matthews with the Black Parallel School Board, in support.

Hello, everyone. Anthony Thornton with the UC Student Association, Black Student Success Officer. We are in support.

Good afternoon everyone. My name is Olani LaBeaud. I'm here with BLU Educational Foundation, also representing California Black Power Network. We're located in 33rd District of California and we strongly support AB 7.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. Vanessa Holman representing the California Black Power Network, in support.

Good afternoon. Lanae Norwood representing the Alliance for Reparations, Reconciliation and Truth and the California Black Power Network, in support.

Eric Payne, Executive Director of the Central Valley Urban Institute, Assembly District 31 in strong support.

Good afternoon. My name is Shelly Saenz. I'm the External Affairs Vice President of UC Davis and member of the University of California Student Association. UCSA is a co-sponsor and strongly supports this bill. We strongly encourage your aye vote. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Anna Marie Lopez. I am a UCSA member and I strongly support this bill.

Thank you.

My name is Sophia Isabel Galuz, here under the UC Student Association and a student at UC Davis and I support.

My name is Andrew Jower and as a descendant of slavery, but radical anti-racist, I cautiously support this bill.

Hello, my name is Dina Walker, President/CEO of BLU Educational Foundation, representing the California Black Power Network as well as the Inland Empire Black Equity Initiative, in support.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Latrice Gresham and I'm here with Inland Empire Black Women's Collective, and I am in support.

I'm Caroline Johnson with Inland Empire Black College and Career Access Network, in strong support.

I'm Zelon Harrison, I'm here with the Black HAT Organization and I'm here in support and also a mom of eight kids, so this really needs to be supported. Thank you.

Good afternoon, Chair Fong, Members. Adrianni Silvano with the UC Student Association. UCSA is a proud, proud co-sponsor of AB 7. We respectfully request your aye vote.

Hello, my name is Angela and I'm a student at UC Irvine with the UC Student Association and I support this bill.

Eric Paredes with the California Faculty Association, and we are a proud co-sponsor. Thank you.

Dr. Marcus Anthony Hunter, Scott Wall Endowed Chair, Professor of Sociology and African American Studies at UCLA, also a board member for the National Black Justice Coalition. I am in strong support.

Good afternoon, everyone. Christian Green, a professor at West Los Angeles College, African American Studies, as well as a national organizer for HR 40, federal reparations, definitely in support. Thank you so much.

Kahlila Williams from UCLA African Student Union and from the African Black Coalition, and I'm in support.

Good afternoon. Dr. David C. Turner III, faculty member in the Department of Social Welfare at UCLA, as well as a co-sponsor of this bill with the Alliance of Boys and Men of Color. We are in proud support of AB 7. Thank you.

Derek Steele, the Executive Director of the Social Justice Learning Institute, co-sponsor of the bill, also representing the Black Experience Acting Team, 75-plus organizations out of Los Angeles County, and we are in support of this bill. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Domonique Henderson and I am a doctoral student at UCLA and I am in huge support of the AB 7 bill.

Thank you.

Hello. Gary Hardie, member of the California Association of Black School Educators and SJLI here in strong support.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Christine Birchfield. I'm a student of African American Studies at UCLA and I am in support of this bill. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Tiara Pierce, sociology student at UCLA and I support AB 7.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Kennedy Morgan. I'm a sociology and African American Studies student at UCLA and I support this bill.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Chanel Dovey. I am a UCLA student and I support the bill.

Hi, my name is Matthew Starr and I'm a Public Affairs and Human Biology major at UCLA and I also support this bill.

Hi, my name is Faith Wiggins. I'm a psychology major at UCLA and I support this bill.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Jasmine Ehner. I'm a third year studying political science and theater at UCLA and I'm in support of this bill.

Hi, I'm the editor-in-chief at UCLA's Black Pre-Law Association Law Journal, and I am in huge support of this bill. Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Alicia Yancey and I'm a volunteer with the African Black Coalition, and we should strongly support this bill and encourage your aye vote.

Thank you.

Hello, I'm Adeola Monisola Fitusi and I'm here with the Black Student Union at San Francisco State University. And I support this bill.

Thank you.

Hi, I'm Samiya Sumner. I'm with the Black Student Union at San Francisco State University, and I strongly support this bill.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Amyla Charles. I am from San Francisco State University, Vice President of the BSU, and I support AB 7.

Good afternoon. My name is Iman Farr. I'm a student at San Francisco State University. I'm here with their BSU and I support this bill. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Blanca Godoy. I'm currently studying political science at USC and minoring in Juvenile Justice, and I strongly support this bill. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Tierra Stokes. I'm from Los Angeles County, and I'm with Sanctuary of Hope, and I support AB 7. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Anaya Blakely. I'm a student at West Los Angeles College and I support this bill. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Billy Hanke. I'm a student at West Los Angeles College and I support this bill. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Chioma Chibuko, and I'm a student at CSU Stanislaus, and I'm here with the Afrikan Black Coalition, and I support this bill.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Skylar Powell. I am a part of Stanislaus State and I am in support of this bill.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Alana Kaylee Pitts. I'm a proud member of the Black Student Union, and I urge you to vote aye.

My name is Dr. Gabriel Regalado. I'm the UC Chancellor's Postdoc at UC Davis. I'm also the Policy and Advocacy Senior Manager with the Social Justice Learning Institute, also UC Berkeley alumni, and I support Assembly Bill 7.

Hello, my name is Alex Malleis Sternberg. I'm with Bold Vision LA, and I support.

Hello, my name is Junie Ponte. I'm here with the Bold Vision Youth Council as a representative, California Native Vote Project, and I'm in support of this bill. Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Camille Samuels. I'm a PhD candidate in Cultural Anthropology at the University of California Irvine, and I strongly encourage you to support AB 7. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Jonathan. I graduated from UCLA in 2023, and I'm with the Social Justice Learning Institute, and I support this bill. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Ale Regolato. I'm an LUSD student here with the Social Justice Learning Institute, and I'm in support of the bill.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Dr. Deonna Smith, and I'm a faculty member at Loyola Marymount University, and I support AB 7. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, everyone. My name is Sonali. I'm a UCLA alumni and current researcher. I'm also here with SJLI, and I strongly support AB 7. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello. I'm Naya Regalado. I'm here with SJLI, and I strongly support this bill.

Thank you.

Hello. My name is Mariah Bonilla. I'm with SJLI, and I strongly support this bill.

My name is Tyrell Simon Frost. I'm a student from Los Angeles High School, also a part of SJLI, and I do support the bill. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Emily Amador. I'm from the Social Justice Learning Institute, and USC, and I strongly support this bill.

Thank you. Hi, my name is Robert Belton. I'm with the SJLI, and I strongly support this bill too.

Good afternoon. My name is Michaela Clincy. I'm also from SJLI, and I highly support this bill.

My name is Dominique Thomas, representing San Jose State University as the internal Vice President, and I strongly support this bill. Thank you.

Good evening, everybody. My name is Fernando Quintero. I'm from LA, specifically Crenshaw. I'm with the Bold Vision Youth Council, and I support this bill.

Hello. My name is Zoe Garner. I'm with the Bold Vision Youth Council and Social Justice Learning Institute, and I stand with AB 7.

My name is Dontrell Fletcher. I'm with SJLI, and I'm also in support of this bill. Thank you.

My name is Saul Velazquez. I support this bill, and I'm with SJLI. Thank you.

My name is Christian Moore. I'm with SJLI, and I support this bill.

My name is Jaden Williamson from SJLI, and I support this bill.

My name is Anthony Garcia. I'm with SJLI, and I support this bill.

My name is Brandon Brown. I'm with San Jose State's Black Student Union. I support this necessary bill. Thank you.

My name is Loghann Bellamy. I am representing San Jose's BSU Political Director, and I am in strong support of this bill. Thank you.

I'm Dennis Yari from UC Davis Black Student Union, and I'm a strong supporter of the AB 7 bill.

Hi. Sheila Bates. I'm with Black Lives Matter Los Angeles, Black Lives Matter California, Black Lives Matter Grassroots and I urge an aye vote on this bill. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Ariana Burton. I'm with the Central Valley Urban Institute, and I'm in full support of this bill. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Nautica. I'm here with the Central Valley Urban Institute, and I am here in support of this bill. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Giovanni Casillas. I'm representing for the Central Valley Institute, and I am-- I'm sorry, I'm in Assembly District 27, and I'm here for the support.

Good afternoon. My name is Seton Isadingo. I'm part of the UCLA Afrikan Student Union, and I support this bill. Thank you. Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Lillian Bailey, public affairs student at UCLA, and I strongly support this bill.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Melissa Love and I'm a student of West Los Angeles College, and it's with the Sanctuary of Hope, and I am in favor of AB 7.

Thank you. My name is Carti Henry, and I strongly support this bill and I represent the Black Student Union Body of West Los Angeles Community College. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Brooke Alexis Wilkerson. I'm an African American studies major at UCLA and I support this bill.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Ella-- Oh, so sorry. My name is Ella Ahmed. I'm with UCLA's Afrikan Student Union, also a future dual master's program of public policy and criminal justice at the University of Southern California, and I'm fully supporting of this bill.

Hi, everyone, my name is Malik Flournoy-Hooker. I am a graduate of UCLA and here on behalf of National Black Justice Coalition and United by Equity, and I am in full support of AB 7. Thank you.

Hi, I'm Keisha Dacoan from Los Angeles, a mother of seven, grandmother of five, and a wife of a firefighter. I strongly support this bill.

I'm Andre Dacoan, retired firefighter, and I support the AB bill.

Good afternoon. My name is Darris Young, and I'm a representative of the Bay Area Regional Health Inequities Initiative, affectionately known as BARHII, and our Black Housing Coalition, affectionately known as Black HAT, and we support this bill strongly. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. I'm Danielle Townsen with Black Equity Collective. We are with the Alliance for Reparations, Reconciliation, and Truth, and we support this bill.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, committee. My name is Candace Span. I'm a student at UC Davis. I'm also part of the UC Student Association, and I strongly support this bill. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. I'm Anna Kayu. I'm a student at UC Berkeley with the UC Students Association, and I support this bill.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Ariana Gonzalez. I'm from UC Riverside, and I strongly support this bill. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, everyone. My name is Sara. I'm a UC Davis student and I strongly support this bill. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Eliana Avalos. I'm a student at UC Davis and I strongly support this bill.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Veronica Hanke and I'm just a citizen and I support this bill.

Thank you.

John Mathews, on behalf of the John M. Langston Bar Association and Los Angeles County Public Defender, in strong support.

Thank you so much. Are there witnesses in opposition in the hearing room? Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman Fong, members of this committee, thank you for your time. My name is Andrew Quinio. I'm an attorney at the Pacific Legal Foundation. I practice primarily in the foundation's equality and opportunity practice.

First of all, though ostensibly not intended here, as used here, AB 57's reliance on ancestry and lineage can act as a proxy and does act as a proxy for race here. To be descended from a chattel enslaved person of American chattel slavery is closely intertwined with race, such that that ancestry serves as a racial preference and a racial proxy in violation of Proposition 209.

I mean, the reality is that slavery - enslaved persons was not diverse. It was specifically affecting a specific category and population of people, unfortunately, in American history. So that's why it would act as a proxy for race because it's so closely intertwined. Secondly, AB 7, excuse me, doesn't directly assist individuals who were victims of discrimination in public education.

Nowhere in the bill is it written that the colleges can consider someone who was a victim of discrimination or its legacies. Instead, it says that if you have the right lineage or right ancestry, then that can be considered by the universities. So, AB 7 ultimately is blind to one's individual experiences and harms.

It would not be difficult to amend this bill to say that colleges can consider a preference or the factors of victims of racial discrimination in public education, regardless of race. That way, this bill would treat students based on their individual lived experiences rather than stereotypes about their circumstances based on their race and ancestry.

As the Supreme Court stated in Students for Fair Admission v. Harvard, nothing prohibits universities from considering an applicant's discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise. In other words, students must be treated based on his or her experiences as an individual, not on the basis of race.

So, the concern here would be that if a university were to see that we can consider just simply the lineage or ancestry of a student, that's all they have to see. They don't have to consider the context of that, what that means to the individual student.

There's nothing currently prohibiting students from writing about their legacy as descendants of enslaved persons. You can do that currently, and the university should consider that.

If the state is confident in the overlap of students who have experienced present discrimination and students who are descendants of slaves, then giving preference based on whether a student has experienced present discrimination would not exclude descendants of slaves.

And to the extent a descendant doesn't get the consideration because he or she has not experienced present discrimination, that's not a bad thing. That's progress. Ultimately, the point is that if assisting victims, present day victims, of discrimination is the goal of AB7, there is a way to do it that is lawful and constitutional.

And this committee must follow that path.

Thank you. Welcome.

Thank you. Members of the California State Assembly, my name is Bruce Lowe. I am a proud product of California public schools from kindergarten through 12th grade and an alumnus of the University of California. I rise today to voice my strong opposition to AB 7.

This bill would grant preferential treatment in college admissions to certain groups, undermining the principle of equal opportunity for all. In 1996, Californians overwhelmingly passed Proposition 209 to ensure that public college admissions and government hiring remained blind to race and sex. In 2020, voters reaffirmed that commitment in another landslide vote rejecting Proposition 16.

Twice the people of California have made it clear: fairness and merit must guide our public institutions. These are not abstract ideals. They are the foundation of the American dream, the very dream that brought my parents to this country. That dream should not be redefined by legislative attempts to pick winners and losers based on identity.

I am deeply concerned by repeated efforts to subvert the will of the people. Whether by repeals or by loopholes, these efforts betray the spirit of Proposition 209. Last year's ACA 7 was rightly rejected after public backlash. And AB 7 is yet another attempt to circumvent the clear mandate for fairness.

I urge you to honor the voice of the voters to uphold the principle of equal opportunity and withdraw AB 7. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Are there witnesses in opposition in our hearing room? Thank you.

Good afternoon. I'm Yu Yo. No AB 7. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Charles Wong. I'm a member of California Professional Society - Professional Scientists Association, and I oppose this bill. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Fred Hsu. I'm with California for Equal Rights Foundation. I strongly oppose AB 7. Thank you.

Thank you.

Greg Burt with the California Family Council, in opposition.

Thank you. Are there tweeners in the hearing room? Colleagues, any questions or comments? Dr. Sharpe-Collins.

I would like to thank my colleague for bringing forth this bill. And I have a point of clarification before I get into some other remarks in regards to the bill itself. One thing that I do want to point out is that when it comes to slavery, because the opposition, you were talking about equality and you were talking about how majority of them, majority of folks for what we're identifying are basically utilizing race because of slavery.

Let me just remind you that most of the people, although now from what we have learned, most of the people that have come to this country, of course, about 80% of it now was primarily people of African descent.